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Want to Forge but have some questions.


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#1 Ryncewind

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 03:54 PM

Okay so my Glanza engine died and I want to forge it now but have a few questions
I believe the engine will need running in. Can I do this myself? Will a plug and play ECU be okay to use or would I need say an Emanage and have it mapped? Or will it have to go somewhere to be run in on a dyno? Will the block need to be notched for the rods to fit? My plan is to buy the stage 3 DIY kit from TD and take it all to an engine builder. How will I know what piston size and head gasket size I need? Will the builder tell me the sizes I need? 
Thanks in advance. 
 



#2 jimmymac101

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 04:18 PM

Have you thought about purchasing an already run in engine and just drop it in and go? 

 

Running in can be done yourself but from what i understand its very boring not being able to boost hard or have any fun ... basically drive like a granny and have regular oil changes, there is a guide somewhere on here! 

 

P&P are great but to ensure your engine is safe as possible emanage or standalone ( apexi, wolf or Motorsport electronic ecu ) would be best as the mapper will ensure everything is running good! 

 

As with picking your engine builder, research is needed for the mapper as all have good and bad feedback but you need to make your own mind up on that  :) 

 

Just my thoughts 

 

James 



#3 Ryncewind

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 04:36 PM

Have you thought about purchasing an already run in engine and just drop it in and go? 

 

Running in can be done yourself but from what i understand its very boring not being able to boost hard or have any fun ... basically drive like a granny and have regular oil changes, there is a guide somewhere on here! 

 

P&P are great but to ensure your engine is safe as possible emanage or standalone ( apexi, wolf or Motorsport electronic ecu ) would be best as the mapper will ensure everything is running good! 

 

As with picking your engine builder, research is needed for the mapper as all have good and bad feedback but you need to make your own mind up on that   :)

 

Just my thoughts 

 

James 

I have thought about that and would prefer to do that but there doesn't seem to be much coming up for sale really.
I'm not too fussed about running it in myself, I think I could manage it knowing I'm saving a fair few quid. That's why I wondered if it would be safe to run it in on a plug and play or would the map be too much for a none run in engine? 
Though if I did buy a standalone or E manage I would have TD do the mapping. 
Thanks for your input James :) 



#4 jimmymac101

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 08:18 PM

Running in on a p&p should be fine my brother-in-law did his on oem and then installed emanage and mapped after:)

Get in contact with zoib on here or facebook he has a couple forged engines for sale from breaker cars!

James

Edit cant cant seem to paste links for you mate so screen shot them on here

Attached Files


Edited by jimmymac101, 16 June 2017 - 08:36 PM.


#5 dan106

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 09:07 PM

I'd struggle to trust any engine bought already forged, purely because you don't know anything about them.

Judging by parts I've bought recently no one can be trusted anymore!


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#6 Fozzie

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 09:44 PM

Some forged engines have turned out to be nails, but then others have been ok. I guess you save a bunch of cash in return for a bit of a gamble!

#7 Ryncewind

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 09:46 PM

Well the chap in the pictures above selling a "Fully forged stage 3" for 2k. TD's stage 3 DIY kit comes in at £1,400. Just have to find an engine builder but i can't see them charging 600 quid to build it hah



#8 Fozzie

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 10:05 PM

I wouldn't be so sure, you'll need to factor in decking the block, checking the head over, honing and cross hatching and then reassembly, plus all the new gaskets and seals. You getting the head checked at the same time? May as well if you're going to drop all that cash on the bottom end tbh!

#9 Ryncewind

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 10:21 PM

I wouldn't be so sure, you'll need to factor in decking the block, checking the head over, honing and cross hatching and then reassembly, plus all the new gaskets and seals. You getting the head checked at the same time? May as well if you're going to drop all that cash on the bottom end tbh!

All the gaskets and seals come in the DIY forging kit from TD. Even if skimming the head and block and honing it and building the engine all comes in at 2k (including the parts) That's the same as Zoib wants for a second hand one. I suppose it makes sense to have a brand new one build instead of buying second hand, unless I'm missing something.



#10 Fozzie

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 10:24 PM

Yea sounds like a fair plan, might as well go new if it's the same price as a used one anyway :)

Not sure what the difference is between the 'stages' but it's generally pretty minimal anyway.

#11 jimmymac101

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 10:34 PM

Dont get me wrong buying any second part is risk no matter the cost of item, some just come with larger risks!

The bonus with a second engine is that you can just drop in and play minimizing down time being off the road.

Not all second hand engines will go bang 5 miles after being droped in .....

Nicks white V has a second hand engine from old memeber lews GT.

Socks has a donor corolla engine with a massive turbo bolted on and still going strong

Thats just two off the top of my head :) do lots of homework before splashing out on either option.

James

#12 Ryncewind

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 11:02 PM

Yea sounds like a fair plan, might as well go new if it's the same price as a used one anyway :)

Not sure what the difference is between the 'stages' but it's generally pretty minimal anyway.

TD's stages just have the oil and water pumps included in the stage 3 ones where at the stage 1 doesn't have stuff like that.

 

Dont get me wrong buying any second part is risk no matter the cost of item, some just come with larger risks!

The bonus with a second engine is that you can just drop in and play minimizing down time being off the road.

Not all second hand engines will go bang 5 miles after being droped in .....

Nicks white V has a second hand engine from old memeber lews GT.

Socks has a donor corolla engine with a massive turbo bolted on and still going strong

Thats just two off the top of my head :) do lots of homework before splashing out on either option.

James

I can definitely see your points mate, I guess you can do your checks on an engine but can't be 100% sure on it. Would be nice to just drop it in and go though. I'm missing not being on the road, Taxis just aint fast enough.
I'll talk to Zoib and see what he's got laying around and go from there! Hopefully I'll get my engine out tomorrow and send it off to be stripped down and see how bad the damage is. 



#13 daniel_g

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 06:18 AM

Ive just recently went forged.

Bought all the parts individually, and used a really good local engine builder.

Ended up saving a good amount of cash over having a company build it.

And its a higher spec then Race Tech and TD stage 3 engines, cheaper too.
4paw build thread http://www.ukstarletowners.com/topic/68845-dans-blue-ep85/

#14 Ollieh17

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 07:41 AM

Second hand works out better if you have a working standard engine as you can sell that to recoup costs. But buying all the bits you'll need your own block, head etc so that adds up

#15 Gainzy

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 09:59 AM

Ive just recently went forged.
Bought all the parts individually, and used a really good local engine builder.
Ended up saving a good amount of cash over having a company build it.
And its a higher spec then Race Tech and TD stage 3 engines, cheaper too.


I'm doing the same. You get warranty piece of mind am gunna sell my engine when the forge one's in in another 10 years haha

#16 daniel_g

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:13 AM

I'm doing the same. You get warranty piece of mind am gunna sell my engine when the forge one's in in another 10 years haha


It is the way forward, showed the builder the specs and prices of the main starlet tuners engines and he was laughing.

Additional cost for balancing a bottom end, should be done as standard, along with weighting and balancing each piston and rod to match.

Mine has headwork, ARP head and main studs in aswell.

Next up would be knife edge crank and cams but they arent really needed.
4paw build thread http://www.ukstarletowners.com/topic/68845-dans-blue-ep85/

#17 glanzagee

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:18 AM

Refresh the head, uprated vavle springs , under shim buckets are a few thing to think about ?

#18 daniel_g

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:04 PM

Refresh the head, uprated vavle springs , under shim buckets are a few thing to think about ?


Springs from Zisco didnt have a spec sheet so went with new OEM. Solid lifters are an option for the future. Think its yaris ones that people have fitted.
4paw build thread http://www.ukstarletowners.com/topic/68845-dans-blue-ep85/

#19 Gainzy

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 04:43 PM

Springs from Zisco didnt have a spec sheet so went with new OEM. Solid lifters are an option for the future. Think its yaris ones that people have fitted.


How much were new oem valve springs?




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