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From boat to train (?) Starlet EP70 1E-L -> 4EFE (?)


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#1 Teun

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 05:31 PM

**Short introduction of myself:

 

I'm Teun from Groningen, the Netherlands. I own a red NA Miata. Buildthread on it can be found here. Since 17 June i own a EP70 1E-L. All original car with all the cool stuff (original radio, speakers etc.). I'm still debating if i want to strip the car, sell all the expensive parts and make it a 'trackday car' or a nice sleeper with all interior. I would like to do a 4EFE swap is the price is right. The headgasket of the 1E-L is blown (oil in the coolant...) so i have to make a desicion fast, perhaps you can help me make up my mind. I have 4 senarios right now:

 

1: Fix up the 1E-L, replace the headgasket, oil and filters: +/- € 60,-

 

2: Buy 4EFE keep stock gearbox: +/- € 225,-

 

3: Buy 4EFE with gearbox: +/- € 395,- (-/- € 100,- for the 1E-L and gearbox).

By doing this swap i would need to swap disbrakes in the rear as well (safety first, lol) so that would be another € 175,-. 

 

Would love to hear your opinions about this.

 

Enough talking, here is a picture of the car:

 

IMG_20170620_160028.jpg

 

My inspiration:

 

Starlet_-_lip.jpg

 

Starlet_-_kuipstoeltjes.jpg

 

If anyone of you know what seats these are, i would love to know! I realy like them.

 

Before doing anything to the car, i had to testfit a seat and steering wheel. Unfortunately they both did not fit and i do not think it suits the style i am looking for.

 

IMG-20170618-_WA0022.jpg

 

On the rear there were a lot of stickers. I cleaned them off first and removed the emblems. 

 

Before:

 

IMG_20170620_160308.jpg

 

After:

 

IMG_20170620_172915.jpg

 

Still unsure if i will keep the Starlet emblem. Total weight savings: 69 grams, LOL.

 

IMG_20170620_174240.jpg

 

And got rid of those ugly wheel covers, which saved 1389 grams (!). I was happy to see the original centre caps, but those wheels need a good cleaning and a little respray.

 

IMG_20170620_175949.jpg

 

 

Next up, i checked the timing belt and the air filter. Belt looks fine, it's a Gates PowerGrip HTD 5270XS, does anyone know if these came on the engine from the factory? Airfilter needs to be replaced if i chose to keep the 1E-L.

 

IMG_20170621_110040.jpg

 

IMG_20170621_105132.jpg

 

After that, I cleaned the engine bay up so, when i chose to work on it, i wont be covered in grease.

 

***viewers discretion advised***

 

Before:

 

IMG_20170622_095128.jpg

 

Removed some stuff that would get in the way when cleaning.

 

IMG_20170622_102142.jpg

 

Broke a bolt, yes, good times!

 

IMG_20170622_102157.jpg

 

Nastiness:

 

IMG_20170622_102150.jpg

 

50/50(isch)

 

IMG_20170622_104929.jpg

 

No rust to be found under here

 

IMG_20170622_114835.jpg

 

There is some rust on this part though, no biggie i guess. Not noticable when it is mounted even.

 

IMG_20170622_115731.jpg

 

Dirty hood:

 

IMG_20170622_120028.jpg

 

Clean hood:

 

IMG_20170622_120831.jpg

 

Used some silicone spray to prefent the rubber items from tearing up and make the black parts look nice.

 

IMG_20170622_121239.jpg

 

Relocated the battery:

 

IMG_20170622_122929.jpg

 

End result (for now). I was just kidding about the battery. Would look nice when it is relocated. Also, the hood and battery are not secured because i removed them after the picture since i need to swap the motor or headgasket before i start driving it again.

 

IMG_20170622_132509.jpg

 

That's it for now. Please let me know what you think about the 3 options i gave and if you know the brand of the seats (or something familiar). Perhaps you would recommend me to carb the 1E-L or something.

 

Thank you for reading!


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#2 morgey

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 05:55 PM

Looks a great base to work from and you have a great choice for inspiration.

Pretty sure toyota have always used toyota branded cambelts on their engines so thats probably been replaced at some point.

Only thing i would say is if doing a 4e swap why not 5efe swap it? More power and torque for the same amount of work...

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#3 Teun

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 08:34 PM

Only thing i would say is if doing a 4e swap why not 5efe swap it? More power and torque for the same amount of work...


Does a 5efe fit without modification on the mounts to? Then i would look into that indeed. I Will do a 4efe or 5efe i decided. Besides the increase in hp and torque is the engine more economical, so within 2 years IT Will earn itself back.

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#4 morgey

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Posted 22 June 2017 - 09:23 PM

Yup same mounts just the wiring side of things that differ. Not sure what fuel economy would be like but id expect 35-40mpg on a run and 30-35ish around town depending on how you drive haha.

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#5 Teun

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 05:13 PM

I have chosen the 5EFE. One question, it has 225k km. Is this acceptabele?

Perhaps it would be wise to replace all the things but i am not willing to spend the extra money.

Any advice?

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#6 Fozzie

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 11:03 PM

The 5EFE is ridiculously economical considering its age. Lots of Paseo owners report 45-50mpg on a long run.

A high mileage one should be fine as long as it's not smoking lots or making any nasty noises. If you keep on top of all the fluids and filters then you shouldn't have any issues. Any engine can go pop mind you, sometimes it's just luck of the draw!

#7 Teun

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 05:27 AM

The 5EFE is ridiculously economical considering its age. Lots of Paseo owners report 45-50mpg on a long run.

A high mileage one should be fine as long as it's not smoking lots or making any nasty noises. If you keep on top of all the fluids and filters then you shouldn't have any issues. Any engine can go pop mind you, sometimes it's just luck of the draw!

So stoked to read this! I ask for a compression test of the motor before i buy it, just in case.

Thanks for sharing the info!

Edited by Teun, 29 June 2017 - 05:27 AM.

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#8 Fozzie

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 08:17 AM

So stoked to read this! I ask for a compression test of the motor before i buy it, just in case.

Thanks for sharing the info!

No worries - you might get slightly lower economy as the Paseo is a very 'slippery' shape, which helps with mpg. On the other hand, the EP70 is a lighter chassis, so either way it should be pretty good :)



#9 Rinke

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 09:11 PM

Hi Teun! Nice to see another Groninger Starlet enthusiast!

Looks like a very good to start with, little rust!!

If i had to swap the engine (and not go the fte way) i would also recommend the 5E.

 

Currently i'm working on a EP71 4E-FTE swap, if you have any questions or need help feel free to ask.



#10 Teun

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 06:58 PM

Hi Teun! Nice to see another Groninger Starlet enthusiast!
Looks like a very good to start with, little rust!!
If i had to swap the engine (and not go the fte way) i would also recommend the 5E.
 
Currently i'm working on a EP71 4E-FTE swap, if you have any questions or need help feel free to ask.


Cool project! Only thing i can worry about is the wireloom, the 4E-FTE loom is pretty much the same as a 5E-FE right? Atleast the wires you need to add.

Once i'm back from vacation i'll update the build thread. I already changed the rear drums to dics brakes, bought a Paseo parts car and sold my Miata. Realy stoked to start the build.

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#11 Rinke

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 02:54 PM

Cool project! Only thing i can worry about is the wireloom, the 4E-FTE loom is pretty much the same as a 5E-FE right? Atleast the wires you need to add.

Once i'm back from vacation i'll update the build thread. I already changed the rear drums to dics brakes, bought a Paseo parts car and sold my Miata. Realy stoked to start the build.

Not sure about this, only difference is that 4E-FTE is turbo and the 5E is not.

I'am using an aftermarket standalone ECU from Spitronics.

Stock loom can also work within the p7, there is a guy in The Netherlands that can merge the loom from the 5E and the car together.

You'll have to check out the dutch starlet forum.

 

Also, you can use the starter, alternator, water- and oilsensors from the original engine. So you can use the original wires and plugs from the car loom. At least, that's what i did. 



#12 Teun

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 07:10 AM

Looking for a AW11 pre facelift steering wheel. Anyone who knows what they go for?

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#13 biggy_ep70

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 01:22 PM

another dutch EP70 here on the forum
nice base to start off with 

why did you sell the miata? 
And indeed...the 5efe is a good combo with the EP70
cant wait to see how this project turns out 



#14 Teun

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 03:54 PM

another dutch EP70 here on the forum
nice base to start off with 
why did you sell the miata? 
And indeed...the 5efe is a good combo with the EP70
cant wait to see how this project turns out 


The Miata was sold because i lost interest in it and i was scared of the rust that started to show on the car. Since i could make a profit on it this season (summer, duh) i got rid of it.

Currently i am cutting up de wiringloom of the Paseo. I only want the nessesery wiring to start the engine and some signals like oil.

Realy need to update the thread tough. Will do soon!

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#15 Teun

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 06:04 PM

Update: 

 

Changed the drum brakes to discs:

 

IMG_20170627_164207.jpg

 

The disc(s):

 

IMG_20170629_083159.jpg

 

Done:

IMG-20170629-_WA0005.jpg

 

Bought a Paseo donor car:

$_84.JPG

 

The crown jewels:

 

IMG-20170711-_WA0021.jpg

 

Just got done stripping the car and cutting up the wiringharnass:

 

image-02-08-2017_21-33-06.jpg

 

IMG-20170808-_WA0004.jpg

 

IMG-20170808-_WA0001.jpg

 

What i got rid off:

 

IMG-20170808-_WA0006.jpg

 

Already sold a lot of parts of the donor, got some ATS Classics 13x7 ET20 with the money and, like i said, i plan on getting a pre-facelift AW11 steering wheel.

 

@biggy_ep70

 

I have to admit that i kinda miss the car. Was a hell of a job to get it clean. It does look better in the picture than it did in real life:

 

IMG_20170709_215416.jpg


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#16 biggy_ep70

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 07:28 PM

looking good....nice progress
i also had bought a donor car and stripped it completely
good luck on your project! will follow



#17 Teun

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 02:04 PM

Progress:

 

Got the 1E out of the Starlet:

 

IMG-20170809-_WA0000.jpg

 

Cut out a part so i did not have to hoist the engine up so high.

 

IMG_20170810_090205.jpg

 

Got the 5E-FE out of the Paseo:

 

IMG_20170810_112512.jpg

 

It appears to be leaking somewere:

 

IMG_20170810_112503.jpg

 

IMG_20170810_114440.jpg

 

IMG_20170810_150815.jpg

 

Please tell me what you think about the oil on the block. I guess the seals on top (behind the gear) leaks, are there any other spots i should check?


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#18 mccartney11

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:59 PM

Check rocker cover gasket , I thought my cam seal was leaking but it was coming out between rocker cover and head

#19 Teun

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:05 PM

Check rocker cover gasket , I thought my cam seal was leaking but it was coming out between rocker cover and head


The rocket cover gasket was my guess to. Will have a closer look tomorrow.

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#20 Clinternational

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:36 PM

Hi Teun

 

Fitted the rear disc brakes so i've seen, all in good working order ? 

 

Did you allready did an compression test ? it should be around the 180 psi, 12 a 12.5 bar, DRY

The leakage is common, I cleaned the rocker cover + anything else around it and try to turn the rocker cover bolts/nuts a little and the leaking is gone.. if they still leak afterwards you can always change the gasket. 

 

Gates powergrip is used by toyota, checked that one few weeks ago. 



#21 Teun

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 05:43 AM

Hi Teun
 
Fitted the rear disc brakes so i've seen, all in good working order ? 
 
Did you allready did an compression test ? it should be around the 180 psi, 12 a 12.5 bar, DRY
The leakage is common, I cleaned the rocker cover + anything else around it and try to turn the rocker cover bolts/nuts a little and the leaking is gone.. if they still leak afterwards you can always change the gasket. 
 
Gates powergrip is used by toyota, checked that one few weeks ago. 


Yes, did the test before i bought the car. It was around 170 but i did not tighten the hose to the head all the way (first one got stuck because it was to tight, was a nightmare to get it out...). Numbers were the same for all cilinders.

Thanks for the tip on the rocket cover! I will try this before replacing it.

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#22 Ollieh17

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:45 AM

if the engine is out of the car it is worth changing all the seals and gaskets



#23 Teun

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 08:32 PM

if the engine is out of the car it is worth changing all the seals and gaskets


I do agree, it will be my first try on a interference engine, i'm just a little bit scared i guess.

Update: removed the fuel tank. I plan on doing the same as this guy:

https://www.rollaclu...ed-use/?page=34

Anyone here that had done this before?

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#24 Teun

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 07:16 PM

What is the risk of using the fuel lines of the carburated engine?

The fuelline of the Paseo is kinda rusted, it does not leak but i'm afraid it will.

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#25 mccartney11

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 08:21 PM

A glanza tank will fit with a bit of persuasion

#26 Ollieh17

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:25 PM

Is it interference? It's easy enough just make sure the marks line up. If you can change a belt on a non-inteference you can do it on a interference

#27 Teun

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 07:50 PM

A glanza tank will fit with a bit of persuasion


I made the fuelpump of the Paseo fit. Only need tot change the top and drill holes to make it fit to the Starlet tank.

Is it interference? It's easy enough just make sure the marks line up. If you can change a belt on a non-inteference you can do it on a interference


True, honestly i once broke my girlfriends Polo because i made soms mistakes.

The Miata was nog problem and this one is even more easier.

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#28 biggy_ep70

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 08:27 AM

how did you make the paseo fuel pump fit the starlet tank??



#29 Teun

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 09:35 AM

how did you make the paseo fuel pump fit the starlet tank??

I will upload pictures when i get behind the pc. I cut off the tank level messure thing since there is one in the Starlet tank and bended the lines so it would fit in the tank. I tried to make sure the pick up is at the same place as the original pick up and drilled new holes so it bolts up to the P7 tank with the seal in between.

Just got done this morning. I did not messure twice so u needed to drill like 25 times to get it right (drunk to much beer last night i guess, lol) so it does not look the prettiest but it will do the job!

-edit: stupid autotype on my phone screws my words up.

Edited by Teun, 16 August 2017 - 09:37 AM.

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#30 biggy_ep70

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:07 AM

aight....cant wait



#31 Teun

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 09:13 AM

Two questions: is the canister and cat nessesary for the mot?

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#32 Teun

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 02:01 PM

aight....cant wait


Done with it! I looked at the scrapyard for a rubber hose with the fittings Toyota uses.

Was lucky enough to find one from a Kia Sportage lol!

I took the filter and hose with me to check how it fits and it should work fine. It will be a tight fit with the intake.

Once i get some spare time i Will upload some pictures so it makes more sence.

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#33 Stu

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 05:14 AM

Cool project!  Makes me want to build another 5e EP71 (Ive build quite a few over the years).

 

1.jpg

2.jpg


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#34 Teun

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 08:29 PM

Cool project!  Makes me want to build another 5e EP71 (Ive build quite a few over the years).

 

1.jpg

2.jpg

 

Sweet! Nice interior of the car. What did you use to make the intake and were did u place the wasserfluid tank?


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#35 Teun

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 09:25 PM

Update time (with pictures:)

 

At this moment i'm still waiting for parts for the engine like the timing belt and seals. I expect to receive them tomorrow so i can refresh the engine.

 

In the meanwhile i did some things.

 

Fitted the radiator fan of the paseo to the radiator of the starlet so i can get better cooling and have a cleaner bay (with the tank on the fan itself).

 

2lc2qs8.jpg

 

Made the Paseo fuelpump fit in the Starlet tank.

 

Before:

 

2hxyvjo.jpg

 

After:

 

IMG_20170817_080309_1.jpg

 

IMG_20170817_075923_1.jpg

 

Glued a extra part on the seal to help seal under the part that is higher then the rest (excuse my horrible English in this sentence).

 

IMG_20170817_085815_1.jpg

 

Here you can see the pick up on the right spot in the tank.

 

IMG_20170817_101450_1.jpg

 

I then moved to the fuel lines. As i said before i was not sure if i could use the line of the Paseo. It ended up breaking so i used the line of the Starlet. I cutted the one of the Paseo and made it fit to the existing line of the Starlet.

 

IMG_20170817_141941_1.jpg

 

For the other end i used a fuel hose of a Kia Sportage Festival (1999 or something like that). I was able to use this hose to convert the excisting line to a AN fitting that would fit a filter that would fit the fuel hose to the fuel rail. Like this:

 

IMG_20170818_103617_1.jpg

 

To make the filter fit i changed some clamps for the brakelines. Worked out perfectly!

 

IMG_20170818_111028_1.jpg

 

After that i soldered the Paseo ignition switch to the Starlet switch.

 

IMG_20170819_102306_1.jpg

 

All done.

 

IMG-20170819-_WA0003_1.jpg

 

For those interested, i made this for the connector of the Paseo.

 

IMG_20170819_132005_1.jpg

 

A buddy of mine welded up the exhaust. I had the flange of the Starlet fitted to the Paseo exhaust.

 

IMG_20170819_145634_1.jpg

 

I figured out why the engine was leaking coolant. A fitting below the throttlebody broke.

 

IMG_20170819_180214_1.jpg

 

Here you can see the nasty coolant that leaked on the bay of the Paseo:

 

IMG_20170819_180225_1.jpg

 

I had some Loctite and Qbond laying around so i fixed the fitting. Before:

 

IMG_20170819_182943_1.jpg

 

After:

 

idzzw4.jpg

 

Then i decided so clean the engine. I started by painting the valvecover and cleaning the bolts.

 

Before:

 

IMG_20170822_104905_1.jpg

 

During:

 

28it9bo.jpg

 

IMG_20170822_141048_1.jpg

 

Continued by cleaning the beltcovers.

 

IMG_20170823_143310_1.jpg

 

Next up was the intake.

 

IMG-20170823-_WA0017_1.jpg

 

Back together with the gearbox and block cleaned aswell:

 

IMG_20170824_222045_1.jpg

 

Fixed the bolt that was stripped by tapping new threads.

 

IMG_20170822_150701_1.jpg

 

A while back i bought some Polo 6n coilovers. I made them fit the Starlet by drilling a new hole and making the excisting hole bigger.

 

IMG_20170824_191745_1.jpg

 

Installed on the car.

 

IMG_20170824_222123_1.jpg

 

The coilovers are used and the collars on the front coilovers are frozen. I was able to brake the collars on one side lose. I will do my ultimate best tomorrow to break the other side loose to.

 

Once i receive the parts i can drop the engine in! 

 

IMG_20170824_222236_1.jpg


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#36 Stu

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 07:02 AM

 

Sweet! Nice interior of the car. What did you use to make the intake and were did u place the wasserfluid tank?

 

Thanks! 

 

I made the intake from some 2.5inch stainless tube and the washer bottle is bolted to the strut tower just behind the fuse box.


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#37 Teun

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 06:33 PM

A question, is the camshaft seal the same size as the crank Shaft seal?

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#38 Clinternational

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:32 PM

No. Just checked that at toyota. As i thought my camshaft seal was busted. I changed my crankshaft seal and oilpump seal both were leaking.

#39 Teun

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 02:36 PM

No. Just checked that at toyota. As i thought my camshaft seal was busted. I changed my crankshaft seal and oilpump seal both were leaking.


Strange, i used the crankseal for the crankshaf and camshaft, worked fine.

Micra K11 Crashed

Miata NA  Sold

Starlet EP70 5EFE: Build thread


#40 Clinternational

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 01:25 PM

What an moron at the desk lol. He said i have the seal for the camshaft, but the crackshaft seal needs to be ordered.



#41 Clinternational

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 01:37 PM

Oke duidelijk......  :p

 

15101A SEAL(FOR CRANKSHAFT)

90311-35040
 

11151B SEAL, OIL(FOR CAMSHAFT SETTING) 90311-35035

#42 Teun

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 09:09 PM


Oke duidelijk......  :p
  15101A SEAL(FOR CRANKSHAFT)
90311-35040
  11151B SEAL, OIL(FOR CAMSHAFT SETTING) 90311-35035


It was a thight fit, pretty sure it wont matter. I did read on another forum that it didn't. We'll see.

Micra K11 Crashed

Miata NA  Sold

Starlet EP70 5EFE: Build thread


#43 Teun

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:29 PM

Update time!

Engine is not in yet :( decided i want to go with the Corolla intake so i bought one but it did not come yet.

In the meanwhile...

Made the rear coilover fit:

xptpgo.jpg

Used the Paseo topmounts and gave them a little cut:

307loph.jpg

Installed:

dglz00.jpg

I deleted the little springs today.

Received the parts so i replaced the seals and timingbelt.

5n6mg9.jpg

All done

2uqluli.jpg

I love how much better it looks after a little cleaning and paint.

One coilover ring is to stubborn, cant get it loose, hopefully the rideheight will be alright. Otherwise i will have to buy a new ring and cut the old one off:(.

2znwwzp.jpg

Removed the brakes from the Paseo.

71pitt.jpg

Does anybody know a nice 14 inch rim for the Starlet? Unfortunally my ATS Classics do not clear the calipers :(

While i was waiting for the Corolla intake i decided to switch the master cilinder and brake lines of the Paseo to the Starlet since they are in mint condition and it will (hopefully) improve Braking.

2i056s7.jpg

Old situation (excuse the blurry pic. you get the point)

9ia32t.jpg

New:

5dm8ib.jpg

Bought a 'new' throttle body so i could propperly fix the idle control thingy.

2mchks1.jpg

Done

28kpj0w.jpg

Last thing i did was paint the enginebay. I used some simple grey primer to match the rest of the paint in the bay.

Forgot to take a good before picture so here is the result!

29yoxtw.jpg

This is how she sits right now.

30nhmj7.jpg

Overall i am happy that i have to wait for the Corolla intake. Made me do more things before dropping the engine in. Those things wouldnt be possible with the engine in.

Edited by Teun, 07 September 2017 - 07:30 PM.

Micra K11 Crashed

Miata NA  Sold

Starlet EP70 5EFE: Build thread


#44 DeBuGti

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:09 PM

Looks awesome buddy, great work there!



#45 Teun

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 07:47 PM

Kinda annoyed right now lol. Tried to paint the grill gloss black but it turned out half gloss half matt.

Then applied some clearcoat, and that resulted in a horrible finish. Great waste of time.

Primer:

15qqgxl.jpg

All good.

First layer:

2rnxwcw.jpg

Not bad still.

After one clearcoat it turned grey in some spots...

21jrk85.jpg

Decided to go all in and threy a thick (to thick, got some runners)... Still no good.

2vlwiaa.jpg

Has anybody done this before with better results?

I guess i will sand it down to the primer once it dries and apply Just a few layers black, maybd the clearcoat screwed it up.

Edited by Teun, 09 September 2017 - 07:51 PM.

Micra K11 Crashed

Miata NA  Sold

Starlet EP70 5EFE: Build thread





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