Keri-WMS Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hi Guys, I run WMS Brakes, we've been doing motorsport / trackday brake kits for various cars for years but in particular the AW11 MR2 and AE82/92 Corolla (plus various Fords and BMWs etc but we won't worry about that! ).We've got some kits for the EP Starlets, pecs are:- 6061 T6 Aluminium calipers, CNC machined from billet and hard anodised, stainless pistons (1.38"/1.38").- 6061 T6 clear anodised brackets, with VERY strong 431 stainless steel threaded inserts, "solid" type not "coil" type (this system is strong enough that we found during testing that an M10 grade 12.9 bolt will actually stretch before the insert fails!).- Grade 12.9 cap head bolts- 275x22 or 277x25 discs, both types fit under 15"s but you'll need to check with the .pdf profiles below.I've split the specs and prices onto two other pages as it was getting confusing:WMS Brakes For 54mm Hub Starlets (>92 Turbo (EP82) etc) &WMS Brakes For 55mm Hub Starlets ('92-'96 Turbo (EP82), '96> Turbo (EP92) etc)EXTRAS (common to all kits):- Grooved discs are offered as a service.- We can upgrade the 277x25 disc to the EBC Turbogroove type as another option.- We offer EBC Red, Yellow and Blue, as well as Ferodo DS2500 (fast road) and DS3000 (race) pads to suit.- Earls braided lines (to fit WMS caliper threads)Here are the PDF profiles, the idea is you print it, check the scale is 1:1 then stick the printout to card, cut it out and try it inside your wheels! (Normal kit) 275x22mm kit profile, accurate to about 1.0mm: 275mm WMS kit PDF (Heavy duty kit) 277x25mm kit profile, accurate to about 1.0mm: 277x25mm WMS kit PDF (Beta/proposed kit) smallest possible 262.5mm kit profile, accurate to about 1.0mm: 262.5mm WMS kit PDF Here are some photos of the kits, starting with what the actual "kit" includes:Inside an SR 15" Speedline (spinning!):Here's how the PDF templates work by the way... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I'll be wanting some of these of you after xmas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keri-WMS Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 I'll be wanting some of these of you after xmas lol, cool! Lots of people are saying "after xmas" at the moment!The 2nd (last) kit will probably sell "very quickly", but I'll be getting a re-stock very soon, early in the new year is the plan.Alloy bells will be along next year as well (as a compatible upgrade, lets people improve things in stages)..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Notorious_C_A_T Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Very good prices compared to the other kits out there it seems!Whats needed in this scene as in my opinion most things are over priced for no reason at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidAshton Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Ok im not going to lie, im a total noob when it comes to brakes, apart from looking pretty what is the improvement over stock and how is it achieved? Apart from the obvious they are bigger. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Notorious_C_A_T Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Would also like to ask are they with dust seals and what thickness are the disks? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keri-WMS Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Very good prices compared to the other kits out there it seems!Whats needed in this scene as in my opinion most things are over priced for no reason at all.I agree. Most MFRs "load" the prices of their products if they think the owners of a particular model will put up with it - WMS doesn't work that way. We have several aims:- Bang for your buck. We don't sell anything because of it's looks, it's performance we're interested in.- Quality. Our kits FIT! You would be amazed how many other kits need extra machining, or have the wrong piston area etc.- Technology/engineering put to good use - like the brackets which are light (aluminium) but don't have weak threads (stainless insterts).- Customer service and support. We look after our customers, and concentrate in ironing out everything for each car rather than heading off to the next car as soon as we can. This has meant we have a really good reputation and sell most of our products by word of mouth within clubs etc.We also have several race cars (some can be seen on TV) that do testing for us:...and other attention to detail includes checking fit in any wheels we get our hands on - 15" Mk3 MR2 and 15" Enkei for instance: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jason_l Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Dam these look sweeeeeeeeet! and price is spot on!If i had starlet hubs i would be buying a set of these but unfortuantely i have mini hubs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keri-WMS Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Ok im not going to lie, im a total noob when it comes to brakes, apart from looking pretty what is the improvement over stock and how is it achieved? Apart from the obvious they are bigger.No problem! Advantages are:- The calipers are MUCH lighter, giving you better grip (less unsprung mass) as well as reducing the weight of the overall car.- The pistons are a bit bigger to give you better "leverage"....based on measurements I did on a Glanza ages ago it's a 6.6% increase, so a bit more power without a soft pedal or upset ABS.- The discs are bigger, resulting in higher brake torque for a given pad pressure.- The calipers are 4-pot giving better control of the pads and modulation ("feel"), even loading on each pad (no sticky sliders), and better pad cooling.- Heat resistance: performance pads are cheaper for WMS calipers, plus the discs can absorb more heat energy per degree of temerature rise, AND they cool faster due to their higher surface area.Basically they give you more power, much better resistance to fade (they take MUCH more abuse), and make your car accelerate, brake and corner faster as they are lighter! Would also like to ask are they with dust seals and what thickness are the disks?We offer a 12-month NO QUIBBLE guarantee on the piston seals (like most other race ones WMS calipers don't have external seals as they would burn off under competition conditions), if they fail we'll send you new ones even if you've been using them on a tractor. This is to counter the worries people have about piston seals on race calipers........we have only ever needed to supply one or two sets or seals and they were not due to dust getting in - in fact we rarely or never sell any seals to even very old kits, and that includes rally cars (mud/grit everywhere). Bottom line is, keep the calipers clean like you would any other part of the car and there won't be any issues, it's just scaremongering. We used to deal with Wilwood years ago and some of their cheaper calipers were castings - this seems to have compromised the anodising and second-hand ones always had corroded bores.....not one single WMS caliper has ever had this happen (that I've been told of).Discs are 22mm, we can do a 25mm version at a push but it's probably not worth the added unsprung mass for most people! The alloy bells / rotors upgrade will be 20.5mm thick.Dam these look sweeeeeeeeet! and price is spot on!If i had starlet hubs i would be buying a set of these but unfortuantely i have mini hubs Realllly?! Do tell!!!...on a starlet? And which Mini, Rover or BMW? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SiCaln Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 nah hes got a lil crazy kit car check out his profile Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nealGT Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 thats great value for a set of four pots compared to the 3g wilwood kit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shane_o Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 will these not fit a ep82 then? if so are you planning a kit for them, need bigger brakes and price seems really good Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 What he said above but also...Out of interest how much for a complete set up?I mean the calipers, brackets, pads, and a set of 2 piece slotted rotors and whatever else that comes with the package?I already have braided lines so would these fit with your kit or do I need some specific ones?Welcome to UKSC by the way Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keri-WMS Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 will these not fit a ep82 then? if so are you planning a kit for them, need bigger brakes and price seems really good I'll need to do a test-build on an EP82 hub, I don't have one to hand sadly. The main difference is that the EP82 has a 54mm bore, the EP91 has a 55mm bore.If you have an EP82 hub I can borrow (or anyone has a cheap EP82 hub for sale) I can get the EP82 version sorted out very quickly.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shane_o Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 dont think i have one to hand will check in the garage later.. where are you based? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keri-WMS Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 What he said above but also...Out of interest how much for a complete set up?I mean the calipers, brackets, pads, and a set of 2 piece slotted rotors and whatever else that comes with the package?I already have braided lines so would these fit with your kit or do I need some specific ones?Welcome to UKSC by the way Well the alloy bells cost would need to be confirmed when I get them in, but they'll be a fair bit extra....we don't normally worry about slotting rotors as it's largely for show, but can do them for a £48.00/pr surcharge as a custom job. The EP91 kit with the trimmings works out like this:Edited, updated prices are here:WMS Brakes For 54mm Hub Starlets (>92 Turbo (EP82) etc) &WMS Brakes For 55mm Hub Starlets ('92-'96 Turbo (EP82), '96> Turbo (EP92) etc)dont think i have one to hand will check in the garage later.. where are you based?Cool, let me know - I'm in Hastings/Bexhill, East Sussex.Mail order only though I'm afraid in case anyone's wondering!Dam these look sweeeeeeeeet! and price is spot on!If i had starlet hubs i would be buying a set of these but unfortuantely i have mini hubs Had a look at your thread - looks good! I...um...#cough#....have a set of classic Mini front uprights on my "development reference" shelves.....if you're really keen? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jason_l Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Had a look at your thread - looks good! I...um...#cough#....have a set of classic Mini front uprights on my "development reference" shelves.....if you're really keen? Im interested in a set but im talking about in the future. I need to spend my money on things that i need to finish the project. Plan is to move the standard 2 pot mini brakes i have rebuilt to the rear and get some sexy ones up front. like these....... Don't go out of your way for my sake, but if you do a mini set i will be interested at some point. Im guessing they would be cheaper than the KAD version??? if not then not really much point in doing a version, most mini parts are really cheap so might not be a huge market for them???thanks,Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keri-WMS Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Fair enough - 'tis true that a Mini WMS kit would probably be cheaper than the KAD version, but it would mean breaking into a very establised market. I'll let you know if I do go for it though!Im interested in a set but im talking about in the future. I need to spend my money on things that i need to finish the project. Plan is to move the standard 2 pot mini brakes i have rebuilt to the rear and get some sexy ones up front. like these....... Don't go out of your way for my sake, but if you do a mini set i will be interested at some point. Im guessing they would be cheaper than the KAD version??? if not then not really much point in doing a version, most mini parts are really cheap so might not be a huge market for them???thanks,Jason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Enzo Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Welcome to the forums Keri, your product matches up perfectly as an alternative to whats out there at the moment.the price of your four pot kit makes great sense when looking at it from a value point of view.plus they look the part.ive got a set on the way for my NA project sr so will let everyone know how they perform and also conduct a few tests of my own Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nanglebadger Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Don't suppose there's anything in the pipeline that will fit under 14s????????? looking for the kinda awesome stopping power that the above items would provide, but that will fit under 14" wheels.Phil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bildo Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Looks to be a very good price compared to the competitors, they look awesome too, great job! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keri-WMS Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Welcome to the forums Keri, your product matches up perfectly as an alternative to whats out there at the moment.the price of your four pot kit makes great sense when looking at it from a value point of view.plus they look the part.ive got a set on the way for my NA project sr so will let everyone know how they perform and also conduct a few tests of my own ;)Cheers chap - good to be here! Looking forward to getting that kit in action on your car, I'm pleased with the kit and chuffed to be able to show people.... ;) Don't suppose there's anything in the pipeline that will fit under 14s????????? looking for the kinda awesome stopping power that the above items would provide, but that will fit under 14" wheels.Phil.Hi Phil, it's limited by the lugs on the caliper vs the lugs on the strut. If you look here:...you can see how close they are to touching! 3.5mm gap in fact. So, the pads are on a 272mm "swept diameter" in this kit, so we can drop to a MINIMUM disc size (with the pads totally flush) of 272mm minus (3.5x2) = 265mm. So I can do a kit that puts this caliper on a 265mm disc, as 280mm WMS kits fit in most 15's with a few mm to spare....the proposed 265mm kit will be 0.6" (15mm) smaller that the 280mm ones, so may fit in 14's, but will be CLOSE to the struts (so some people might need to "clean the strut casting" a bit).How many people want to keep their 14's then? If people want they can opt for the next size up pistons as well on 265mm, this will give you a softer pedal than the 1.38" spec but extra power even though the disc size is only 11mm bigger than OEM...There will be some 14's that can take the 275mm kit as-is of course as some wheels are better than others when clearing brakes, you can get 300mm kits inside some Team Dynamics 15's for instance!Looks to be a very good price compared to the competitors, they look awesome too, great job!Cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nanglebadger Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 my Rays are only 14" you see, thats why I ask. thank-you very much for taking the time to explain all that to me Keri, it is very much appreciated and has given me some food for thought!all the best here on UKSC, if u need anything just drop any of us Admin team a PM!Phil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keri-WMS Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 my Rays are only 14" you see, thats why I ask. thank-you very much for taking the time to explain all that to me Keri, it is very much appreciated and has given me some food for thought!all the best here on UKSC, if u need anything just drop any of us Admin team a PM!Phil.Cool, will do - thanks! (and it's no trouble at all)I've had a look and I can JUST use a 263mm disc, if that's any help to people with smaller wheels - I even have a specific disc that'll work if there's demand for it.The alloy bell / rotor setup is compatible with 280x20.5 and 273x20.5 rotors, it might be that the 273mm version does the trick. I can drop to a pad radius of about 269mm on those rotors, but that would be it, smaller than that and it's one-piece discs all the way.I'd normally be happy to see what we can fit inside your wheel if you could lend us one - but I see you're not exactly local having just peeked at your profile!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nanglebadger Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 haha no not exactly!!hopefully someone else on here can help out with providing a 14" wheel for experimentation!!!again, your help is greatly appreciated Keri, thank-you!Phil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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