Jump to content


Photo

Engine rebuild question


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 Zafar

Zafar

    Member

  • 29 posts
  • Gender: Male
  • Location:Kenya
Joined: 24-May 07

Posted 05 July 2007 - 08:45 AM

Can a 4E-FE head fit on a 5E-FE dis(No distributor) block? Considering that this can be done what else would you suggest when the engine is open to increase power after the normal engine re-build?

#2 scutch0

scutch0

    As confused as a hungry baby in a topless bar

  • 3967 posts
  • Gender: Male
  • Location:biggleswade, befordshire
Joined: 28-August 05

Posted 06 July 2007 - 07:23 AM

a 5efe head is identical to the 4e head mate. but will offer no real performance advantage as the extra power comes from it being a longer stoke engine. the 5efhe head is different however, but not really in a way that will improve performace (waterways etc).
'98 Ep91 Toyota Starlet 1.3i - Sold
'99 Ep91 Toyota Starlet Glanza V - Sold
'96 El54 Toyota paseo -Sold
________________________________

'95 JZA80 Toyota Supra - My Pride and Joy
'98 Ep91 Toyota Starlet SR (Glanza replica) - My Daily

#3 StarletRick

StarletRick

    tcfurleif

  • 3593 posts
  • Gender: Male
  • Location:Essex
Joined: 29-August 05

Posted 06 July 2007 - 09:06 AM

they are the same mate, just the fhe heads are made in japan, and they just make it better.

the jdm 4e intake runners are alot better than the 4e uk made runners. the casting is better.

all 4e/5e heads are the same. but the 5efhe from the cynos (one with the acis manifold) had a slightly (and i mean slightly) higher lift on the exhaust.

www.tctuning.net
Posted Image
'89 Eunos Build


#4 Zafar

Zafar

    Member

  • 29 posts
  • Gender: Male
  • Location:Kenya
Joined: 24-May 07

Posted 06 July 2007 - 11:19 AM

I am finding it hard to get a distributor type low milage 5E-FE so i was thinking why not get a 5E-FE DIS rip the head off and use the current 4e-fe head with the rolla manifold? Is it advisable to use a thinner gasket and up the compression like using the TRD one? Dont want a turbo just a nice nippy starlet. The 4e-fe lacks that.

#5 StarletRick

StarletRick

    tcfurleif

  • 3593 posts
  • Gender: Male
  • Location:Essex
Joined: 29-August 05

Posted 06 July 2007 - 11:29 AM

i know the DIS head has different intake flanges, but i dont know of any other differences. im pretty sure they'd be the same as the dizzy 5e but just have the distrobutor port blocked up. do you have any pick.

the hard part would be getting the DIS to work with the 4e ingition system or visa versa. the mechanics of it are somple, its the electrics that will be a pain.

www.tctuning.net
Posted Image
'89 Eunos Build


#6 StarletRick

StarletRick

    tcfurleif

  • 3593 posts
  • Gender: Male
  • Location:Essex
Joined: 29-August 05

Posted 06 July 2007 - 11:32 AM

ive just actually realised what your after now!

you mean you want to just take the block from a 5e DIS and use it with a current 4efe setup? ie. use block, crank, rods and pistons.

that should work.

www.tctuning.net
Posted Image
'89 Eunos Build


#7 Zafar

Zafar

    Member

  • 29 posts
  • Gender: Male
  • Location:Kenya
Joined: 24-May 07

Posted 06 July 2007 - 01:10 PM

Exactly now you got what i was after. As the 5e-fe DIS are available with little milage. Anything i can do to improve power while the engine is open? Port and Polish is out os the question no one trustable with the right equipment. Is it possible to re-bore and use 4a-fe (1.6lt) pistons and rings?

#8 StarletRick

StarletRick

    tcfurleif

  • 3593 posts
  • Gender: Male
  • Location:Essex
Joined: 29-August 05

Posted 06 July 2007 - 01:13 PM

the 4a has a different head bolt pattern, so that wont work mate.

the gearbox wont work either.

youll have to stick with the 5e im afraid.

and porting the head is alot earier than most people think, it just takes bloody ages.

www.tctuning.net
Posted Image
'89 Eunos Build


#9 Zafar

Zafar

    Member

  • 29 posts
  • Gender: Male
  • Location:Kenya
Joined: 24-May 07

Posted 09 July 2007 - 05:29 AM

Really :P i thought Port and Polish needed a bench flow thingamajigie or something like that. Could it be done with some elbow grease? Maybe just polish properly and not mess too much with the flow properties? :P

#10 Jozinobi

Jozinobi

    ★ Team UKSO 赤い星★

  • 5741 posts
  • Gender: Male
  • Location:★ UKSC NI ★
Joined: 01-January 06

Posted 09 July 2007 - 09:20 AM

Hey Zafar.

Im running a low mileage 5efe (26k) with distributor in my UK starlet. It is a very nice improvement and gives you the extra 'nippyness' you seek with a healthy 10ft of added torque.

Your concern about the port and polish is correct, the ports have to be matched properly (with precision) to your manifolds to enable the best possible flow and improvement.

Whilst the engine is open, you asked if there is anything you can add... you can add 5efhe cams (1mm higher lift and duration with matching shims) 5efhe rods and 5efhe pistons, 5efhe valve springs. There is the option to skim the head to raise compression but this may/may not be a safe option, using a thinner trd head gasket (0.5mm or 0.6mm) will do the same job of raising compression as will adding the 5efhe components mentioned above. You can use the existing 4efe ecu if you are stuck for options, the 5efe ecu will lower your rev limit to 5800rpm but will run the intended map for the 5efe, although the settings are somewhat similar with both engines. Get the 5efe ecuif it is well priced, you may need it for other things...

These all have benefits found with the 5efhe, I intend to add them at a later date. These items will raise your compression, allow higher revving (of 7200rpm with 5efhe ecu or piggyback) and give you power higher up the revs, making it more 5efhe like. This route can be a little expensive and has not actually been done extensively on a 5efe and some people say its not worth the hassle, I intend to change that.

The 5efe is a 'refreshing' improvement over the 4efe, although only slight gains in bhp and torque, it is noticeable and efficient.

Hope this helps.

Joz

#11 StarletRick

StarletRick

    tcfurleif

  • 3593 posts
  • Gender: Male
  • Location:Essex
Joined: 29-August 05

Posted 09 July 2007 - 10:02 AM

to do an extensive P&P job you will need it bench flowed. but to just tidy the runners up you wont need it testing. just remove the casting marks and take off the rough edges then polish it.

makes a big difference.

www.tctuning.net
Posted Image
'89 Eunos Build


#12 Zafar

Zafar

    Member

  • 29 posts
  • Gender: Male
  • Location:Kenya
Joined: 24-May 07

Posted 10 July 2007 - 08:53 AM

Thanks for all the help guys. As for ading the FHE parts, the FHE engine is very rare here meaning very high$ so no point in that. Will just use the 4E head and 5E ECU if i can get it and increase compression if i can. Any place in UK that sells the TRD head gasket? How much is it? I have a relative coming over soon(no postage charge!! :P ).

EDIT: Just got a quote from Fensport of 62.21 pounds (Within UK postage). Sound reasonable? Any other places i can try?

#13 Zafar

Zafar

    Member

  • 29 posts
  • Gender: Male
  • Location:Kenya
Joined: 24-May 07

Posted 10 July 2007 - 11:20 AM

In my knowledge these are the compression ratios for:
5E-FE - 9.4:1(100hp)
5E-FE DIS - 9.4:1(94hp)
4E-FE - 9.6:1(100hp)
5E-FHE - 9.8:1(110hp)
Questions:
1) Where is the difference coming from? i.e:- Pistons,head gaskets,heads?
2) By putting the 4E-FE head on the 5E-FE will i get a compression ratio of 9.4:1 and lose power?
3) Is it possible to have the 4E/5E hybrid at a compression of 9.8:1 safely?

#14 Zafar

Zafar

    Member

  • 29 posts
  • Gender: Male
  • Location:Kenya
Joined: 24-May 07

Posted 13 July 2007 - 06:05 AM

After alot of digging have some Info:
4E-FE - High compression pistons followed by 5E-FE then 5E-FE DIS
4E-FE & 5E-FE Have the same heads 5E-FE DIS has oval shaped ports
4E-FE & 5E-FE Have same TB (50mm)but 5E-FE DIS Has a smaller TB (45mm)
Head gasket size 4E-FE = ?mm 5E-FE = 1mm 5E-FE = 0.5mm
(Fensport sell TRD Head gasket for 4E-FE which is 0.6mm so original must be bigger than that)

Other Info 5E-FE DIS(Sorry if this is copyright but cant find that site again to ask permission):
It incorperates smaller diameter and longer runners along with a smaller plenum. And, while it shares the same intake manifold bolt pattern the port shape of the intake ports on the head and manifold are much more oval shaped than the 1st gen 5E-FE. Oddly enough the cross sectional area of the two intake port shapes are nearly identical. The exhaust ports and bolt pattern remained the same.
The 2nd gen 5E-FE is also more technically advanced than its older brother. It utilizes knock sensing and a distributorless ignition system. It is also OBDII compliant.
In 1997 there was a small redesign done to the 2nd gen 5E-FE. Toyota was able to pass emissions without the use of an EGR valve and instead used an advanced charcoal canister system. Along with this change they altered the fuel system to be a returnless type.




Welcome Guest, to UK Starlet Owners!
Please Login or Register to be apart of the club!