Timing up 5e correctly

[Taggy]

Ok so got the car back together, I am doing the timing but I have come across a small problem with the timing setup. I cant seem to figure out how the hell the idler no.1 pulley is hooked up to the spring. I cant seem to get any decent spring tension on it to tension the belt.

Has anyone got a pic of the oil pump with the clip attached that the spring hooks onto, i need to see what position it goes in, this oil pump has no markings or indent to show which way around it goes, driving me nuts!!!

Also just to make sure i dont cock this up, can i just verify i have timed it up correctly.

I have timed the crank woodruff key gear with the indent to the notch on the oil pump, I have matched the dots on the back of the camgears so they meet each other in the middle and i have also lined up the 4e dot when you look through the cam gear.

I think this is correct!

Also can someone go over the correct procedure with tensioning the timing belt, i just want be double sure i have done it correctly!!!

[Taggy]

anyone?

[micky boy]

Dont know if this will be any use to you but here you go!

http://mearcatmini.blogspot.co.uk/2010_07_01_archive.html

[AdamB]

Why didn't you time the engine up using a DTI gauge? The marks can still indicate to be out 2 or 3 degrees in relation to piston position.

http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides/tuning-guide-pages/camshaft-fitting-timing.html

Edited April 21, 2013 by AdamB

[Taggy]

Cheers Micky thats exactly what i needed

Craig

Dont know if this will be any use to you but here you go!

http://mearcatmini.blogspot.co.uk/2010_07_01_archive.html

[glanzagee]

Are you going to use the 4e mark or 5e on the cam pulley

[Taggy]

I have been using the 4e marks

[ryan lang]

should be using the 5e on the cam pulley shouldnt you dude seeing as its a 5e. unless your using 4efte cams?

bottom one: theres a little notch on the lip at the back of the pulley between the woodruff key and the letter e tried circling but doesnt show it up to well. but if its clean you'll see it plain as day bud

[turbo Grant]

With the cam have you been lining the pin up with 4e marks.between the 5e/4e marks is half a tooth

[Taggy]

I was always told to use the 4e marks, even TD said he builds his engines on those timing marks.

I have got it sorted now anyway, i should have car finished tuesday, rain is stopping me from finishing it today!

[ryan lang]

what have you lined the bottom pulley up to mate?

TD use the 4e top markings? surely thats not right?

[Taggy]

i lined the bottom pulley with the notch on the gear with the marking on the oil pump

[ryan lang]

like in my picture ^^

[Taggy]

yep

[ryan lang]

cool cool im still unsure on that 4e 5e cam pulley though mate

[glanzagee]

Not sure what others think about this but this is my view if it's a 5e meaning longer stroke than 4e what do you think would happen to the firing inside the chamber on 4 e marks with camshaft positions

Have a good long think about it cam positions in both are way different for position of piston

[AdamB]

You time it in accordance to the cam specs. The 4EFTE inlet cam opens at 2 BTDC, Exhaust cam opens at 38 BBDC. Use a DTI gauge! Take half an hour and time it up properly. Why spend thousands on an engine and skimp at the last hurdle?

Use an adjustable cam pulley to then adjust valve timing when on the dyno.

Edited April 22, 2013 by AdamB

[ryan lang]

Not sure what others think about this but this is my view if it's a 5e meaning longer stroke than 4e what do you think would happen to the firing inside the chamber on 4 e marks with camshaft positions

Have a good long think about it cam positions in both are way different for position of piston

this ^

You time it in accordance to the cam specs. The 4EFTE inlet cam opens at 2 BTDC, Exhaust cam opens at 38 BBDC. Use a DTI gauge! Take half an hour and time it up properly. Why spend thousands on an engine and skimp at the last hurdle?

Use an adjustable cam pulley to then adjust valve timing when on the dyno.

this also^

if your using 4efte cams, time 4e, if your using 5e cams use 5e mark

[Taggy]

i am using the 4efte cams

[AdamB]

I believe the 5E mark is only for the slightly longer duration and higher lift 5EFHE cams, as the cam specs between 4EFE, 4EFTE and the 5EFE are the same.

[ryan lang]

the lift and duration are the same. dont think the timing marks are because i ran 5efhe cams in my old n/a 4e, and we tried timing them up to the 5e mark on the cam gear and it ran like shit

then timed it up to the 4e cam setting and it ran great (minus the cam pulley coming loose after a few miles)

so id say definitely run it on the 5e timing mark, as glanzagee said the longer stroke will make the difference up and throw out the timing

[AdamB]

Ah strange, wonder what the 5e mark is even for then?

The engine stroke makes no difference because the crankshaft rotates twice to 1 rotation of the camshaft, regardless of piston position in the cylinder. Providing the cambelt is attached of course lol. When timing in the cam you make sure cylinder 1 is at TDC, set the camshaft degree and then put the belt on. This gives you a datum point as to the exact opening and closing times of the valves for THAT cam. The problem being with the E series engine is that both cams are meshed together, so what you do to one cam, effects the other. Having no independent adjustment of both cams makes things difficult to time up, especially the intake cam.

[turbo Grant]

When you put the pully on the cam is still in the same place weather it's on 4e or 5e marks. Then you go up the centre lines of the marks I think it's about half a tooth. Don't see why people think the marks are miles apart in timing terms?

[ryan lang]

They are miles apart obviously, but it makes the difference

[turbo Grant]

Half a touth is not that far apart. Base timing will change between marks as well. But best way is dial gauge no doubt about that.

Same sort of principal as when you put different peg holes ( 4e / 5e in this case) in for dialling in the cam. I could drill a hole in the pully and call that the 4.5E mark and the cam will still be dialled in.

Edited April 22, 2013 by turbo Grant