Starbuck Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Im not a vocal person when it comes to car issues and problems with companies and i have kept this one off the forum since the start almost 2.5years ago. But its been going on almost that long with the GT only coming back to me mid march 14. Now its time to get it off my chest and out on the www as its been chewing me up for a while. From Lover to hater(English scholars please excuse grammatical errors etc. lol) Well the car is being broken and my Starlet ownership has ceased (for the time being maybe). See all my MODs breaking? This is why. Some will know the long story behind my reason why and some won’t. Below is the reason why, should you wish to read it. After the first Dave Burwash meet my car began playing up and causing me issues. I took it to TD like I did with most of my issues, as I was happy with their service and help and had taken my car there since I had owned it. After being told the engine was worn and that was the issue I decided to go forge and TD04. This initial build took 4 months to complete and was 3 months over the initial quoted time of completion. Just over a week later (After having the car back) the engine started making noises and subsequently the car was returned to Tuning Developments for inspection to find the issue. I was then informed after a quick inspection that the engine had been damaged (Not to mention the fucked TD04 that was grinding the casing) and that they would need to keep it for a full inspection. About two weeks later it turned out that the engine hadn’t been cleaned/inspected properly (Due to an oversight) before being put back together and because of this, contaminants had been dragged through the engine causing damage. Due to this Tuning Developments under their warranty (6months) repaired the engine free of charge. No hassle, brilliant I thought. Another 4 months pass (again greatly over their quoted time for the build, a recurring theme for many owners waiting for a build) during this time I have to take public transport at my cost and try and arrange lifts to get to work (at great stress), all the time chasing TD for updates as little information was being passed back to me regarding the progress of the build (Another recurring theme among those getting work done by TD, im sure they’ll be some heads nodding in agreement). I eventually get the car back in December 2012 and told to come back after 1000miles for a check up to make sure everything is fine. With the Christmas period and associated weather the 1000miles took till March to do, well 1200 by the time I got it to them. Including all the necessary oil changes (Helped by DeanRW) to their running in sheet order. I then took the car back them to check over and the car got the green light that everything was working fine and the MAP was good. Great, time for boost and at last being able to use the GT properly. Unfortunately 2 months later in May 2013, just after JapFest, the engine started making the same noises it did previously. After a call to TD I was advised to stop driving and arrange for the car to be low loaded to them. Two weeks later (June) at a cost to me of £100 the car was taken back to them to be inspected. Luckily for me, of so I thought, the car was just within its new warranty period from the last rebuild. A couple of weeks later I was told by them that they had found “contaminants” in the oil (again) and that the engine would need to be removed and stripped down to be inspected by themselves (again). I was never fully told what these ‘contaminants’ were or shown images, I was just told the oil was very dark and metally. After 2 months, again having to sort my own transport out at my cost, I took the decision that when the car was fixed I would sell it as I had lost faith in it due the issues. I also took the decision to purchase another car because the lack of one was crippling me and having an impact on family life, especially with 2 children and school runs etcThree months pass and after numerous messages through Facebook and calls and, I am eventually told that again the engine has been damaged by “contaminants”, not by machining issues according to their machinist (as it would have gone quicker if it was...apparently), and would require a rebuild. At that point I make TD aware of my intentions to sell the car upon getting it back and I am asked by TD what I would like to do in regards to the car. I told TD that as I was selling the car that it would be quicker if we came to amicable arrangement where they would keep the engine and we come to an agreement on a partial refund of the original cost of the engine build which would save them their labour time and cut the amount of time it would take for me to get the car back and allow me to start selling parts off of the car quicker. I told them I wasn’t prepared to wait another 4 months for a build hence why this was my preferred option. I left this with them and after a while TD got back to me and said that they would not be prepared to do that as in their eyes they would be admitting fault for the engine issue..... How else did the crap get in the engine?? Not from the oil changes, that’s for certain. So therefore must have been in the engine already..... They came back to me and said that they would be prepared to build the engine for free, labour wise, if I was to pay for the parts to fix it and that their maybe another option. Not the answer I was hoping for, as I don’t expect to have to pay for anything considering a new engine is meant to last a lot longer than 3500 miles. Having told me when I took the car in that I was lucky that the car didn’t go bang and that bringing it to them when I did would have saved any major damage I thought I would entertain the possibility of spending a couple of hundred pounds on parts and have the engine fixed which I could then sell on as intended. I got back to them after a week and told them that I wanted a complete breakdown of everything the rebuild would need this time. At this point in time I was almost at the point of giving up as I just wanted to get the car back and not have this hanging over my head like a tonne weight. After another week or so I had a call from TD where I was told that the cost in parts for the rebuild would near enough negate the sale cost of the engine. This was far more than I had been led to believe and meant in layman’s terms it wasn’t worth doing at all. The remaining option that was offered to me was a £100 refund of the cost of the low loader to get the car to them, £100 for the cost of the low loader back and their time to part strip the car ready for selling. In other words just forget about the £2300 cost of the build. (I never took the offer hoping for a better one, which never came.........) Having reached a stalemate situation with them I decided to claim (Section75 of the Consumer Credit Act) through my credit card the total costs of the engine rebuild and that is where I am at the moment. After that I shall be more than likely going to put a claim in thru the Small Claims Court as well. TD have offered no full explanation on the ‘contaminants’ found in the engine and have made no real effort in coming to an amicable solution to this sorry mess. In my opinion (and this is just speculation) it was never fully cleaned from the original problem and some parts were reused which perhaps shouldn’t have been, leading to the speedy ruining of the second forged engine. This experience has soured what was a good TD car relationship and was the ‘nail in the coffin’ of what was meant to be a good few years of fun forgedness but instead ended up being about 2000miles of fun and a massive hole in my pocket. ) A great example of a TD bombproof engine......not. So there you are ‘My Story’ take from it what you will. Some people may have a good experience (Ive put bets on who will reply.. lol) and some may not. This was my experience. They say lightening doesn’t strike twice, but in this case it did and I certainly won’t be recommending them anytime soon and in doing so joining an ever growing list of unhappy customers on here, driftworks and gtroc etc etc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
turbo Grant Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I feel for you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aamir Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) Such a shame as I'm guessing it would have taken you a really long time to source all the TOMs parts and now your selling up I really feel for you mate, all the best Edited April 1, 2014 by Aamir Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TurboTobz Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I feel for you ^ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Starbuck Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 It is a shame. I wanted to be one of the few/many owners running around in a TD Forged engine with no issues for quite a few years as some are. Unfortunatly not the case for me and it ruined my love for it, hence the decision to break/strip. I couldnt justify not buying a second car as the lack of another car whilst the GT was away for months on end was crippling the family and causing a lot of stress. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 horrible stuff that happened mate.feel for yah.really do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
drongo boi Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Bad times dude :-( really do feel for u! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dean_mc88 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 gutted because its a lovely looking car Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TrisK Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Real shame to see you breaking the car Marc, and that you and TD couldbnt come to an amicable resolution for both of you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JamesD89 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 A heartbreaking story mate hope it works out for you whether through the legal proccess or Tuning Developments sorting it out as surely they should it's a lot of cash and time wasted to have nothing to show for it. Obviously things like this will happen from time to time but twice on the same engine is unacceptable. Sorry for you bud as above is a lovely motor. James Quote Link to post Share on other sites
_shaun_ Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Kinda guessed with all the parts up for sale this was happening. With all the bad reviews floating around think people should just steer clear. All the best with persuing refund via the courts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Manny Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Thats really sad to hear and anyone to go through what you been through. It Will take you a very long time to get over it. All the best. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Banbury Glanza Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I know this feeling :/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scottieboi94 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 This is a suprising story as ive heard many good things about tunigng developments, just lucky i havent used them so far i suoppose, sorry to hear about your situation mate Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Starbuck Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 Cheers for comments people. The good feedback was why I used them in the first place all those years ago. But since mine went in for forging the negs have slowly been creeping up. My personal opinion as for the reason to this is their reluctance to take people on to work on the cars and as the workload has increased so has the issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DevonGT Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Sorry to hear this mate. I'm just glad I never used them and have a trusted engine builder/tuner nearby. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
H_D Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Its always a shame when a car enthusiast has to walk away from their car due to no fault of their own Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris_14a Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Sorry to hear about the problems. I have used tuning developments for years and would not recommend anybody else as my car is booked in for a forged motor in may due to countless people recommending them in the first place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Josh@TunerLifestyle Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Sad news Marc i remember when you first had the starlet and how much you loved the car and your plans etc its a shame it ended this way Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iamlegend Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) sort of the same feelings I had sadly my experience was not the best and I even said to mike I thought this was going to be a dream as I praised them and had a fair few starlets go there when they asked me where should go....... was not a dream specially agreed I had to pay almost 300 pounds out of my own money to travel to get the car back home(fuel etc) which my car engine had a fault after say 200 miles of use... 300 pounds is not much money but it is when you have just handed over near enough 5 k! this fault happend twice..... to me thow there maps where awesome my white v and brothers silver V was mapped really well so can praise for that....pulled like a crazy train just the quality on the engine build was alittle poor.... and the extra month of waiting time... Edited April 1, 2014 by iamlegend Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike@TD.co.uk Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Hello, When the car first returned it had excessive play in the turbo, as agreed we kept hold of the car and proceeded to strip it down, finding the turbo to be damaged along with other parts. The cause of this was later found to be your rocker cover which had been sandblasted and although cleaned out prior to install, had managed to dislodge more foreign objects into the engine after being ran for several hours. This rocker cover was not made, nor supplied by us. Despite this we replaced the damaged engine parts and turbo under our warranty, which included a full block strip down and clean, with no cost to yourself. You sourced another rocker cover and we refused to use the original rocker cover again that had caused these issues. You collected the car and used it for 6 months before reporting another issue, which upon inspection was found to be foreign objects in the oil. The engine parts were referred to outside specialists who confirmed this, tolerances on the crankshaft were checked and confirmed that where scoring hadn’t taken place, these were correct for the application. We have no control over an engine once it leaves our premises; maintenance and usage are things we cannot do anything about. The first issue was indicated very early on, and then rectified. It is unfortunate that you again ran into issues but these are not issues caused by us, we did try to accommodate you with a solution but you politely declined and took your own steps from that point. We then proceeded to store your car for you whilst you did this for a lengthy period before you decided to take it back to break it. We have many many engines running across the board, not just Starlets, running faultlessly, we still keep in contact with the current owner of the first engine that was built and recently did more upgrades on that car 6 years later making it very nearly 300bhp. Still runs like a dream. I won’t get into an online argument, just putting our view across which is very often ignored and not considered. Thanks Mike JonesTuning Developments Ltd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Starbuck Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 Sorry to hear about the problems. I have used tuning developments for years and would not recommend anybody else as my car is booked in for a forged motor in may due to countless people recommending them in the first place. Understandable. You've been close with them for ages, taking the S14 there for work etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike@TD.co.uk Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 sort of the same feelings I had sadly my experience was not the best and I even said to mike I thought this was going to be a dream as I praised them and had a fair few starlets go there when they asked me where should go....... was not a dream specially agreed I had to pay almost 300 pounds out of my own money to travel to get the car back home(fuel etc) which my car engine had a fault after say 200 miles of use... 300 pounds is not much money but it is when you have just handed over near enough 5 k! Hello, We covered all transport costs to get your car back to us, and resolved the issue you had. Your car ran fantastic and made excellent power also. Too much for an automatic in our opinion, but it went well regardless. Thanks Mike Jones Tuning Developments Ltd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmymac101 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Absolutly speachless I feel you for mate James Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ro55ifumi Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Marc Totally understand and this is not a one off with TD experiences, here's mine I had a forged engine built by them, engine out and back in including clutch, bigger injectors etc, i found a company supplying upgraded stem seals called Zisco, whom have cars running 400-500 bhp on these with no issues and no reported issues with them in the Starlet scene.All in all i paid in excess of £3000 for the honour, the day i collected the car it was smoking on tick over and i suggested stem seals but they said it may be down to the compound and they need bedding in so away i go to run the motor in.(More like damaged when put in)After 500 mile, still the same so i contact them and they say it maybe my TD04 that was the issue, so i strip the turbo kit out and send away for refurb( Liam D), rebuilding the car with all new gaskets etc and guess what still the same.I then run the car in taking it back for the re-map and it is still smoking, after the remap they say it maybe the PCV so away i go and change that to no avail, calls them again, struggling to keep it together!! they agree to send another turbo out as they insisted that the engine was all good, again i stripped the turbo out and replaced with another turbo using new gaskets etc and still the same!!!!!Another phone call and they agree to take a look at the engine, 4 months pass by of pestering and i receive a call to say the stem seals i supplied had failed!! but it had been smoking from the day i collected it!Obviously there were various messages between us as i said they had fitted them incorrectly damaging them as they installed them, this was going no were in the end i ended up paying another £360 to sort it. In all they had the car 6 months to sort the stem seals.I was out of pocket for Turbo refurb, PCV, my time and lost hours of use etc.It was the stem seals they were clutching at straws to avoid them rebuilding the engine but it was them that had incorrectly installed the seals you can understand my concerns on the map, and this is not the only car that has had issues at TD, this was one reason for taking it to Will for a remap Really going to miss you in the Starlet my friendJohn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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