Jump to content

Josh's forged 5E Massive spec forged build! 370BHP!!


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 181
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

2 hours ago, akyakapotter said:

Coming along mate attention to detail is next level on this thing. 

Cheers nick 

Thanks mate means a lot, really love the ammout of stuff that can be done in a bay, cant wait to turn some heads in meet/show season soon. here is another pic just taken in better lighting. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

So its been a frustrating week with the car,  had issues with engine earths and starter motor would struggle to turn over. i have added 4 more earth to the engine bay and also one to the starter motor and its miles better. The problem is now the car is misfiring and running super rich. going to get a timing light from a friend this week and check timing and if that is all ok will do a compression test. also going to borrow a friends dizzy and ht leads to rules things out. i also have a spare coil pack so will swap that over and see if it makes a difference. All the videos of the car starting up ect are on my facebook so if you want to see them throw me an add and you can view them on my wall.  

Here is a link to my facebook! https://www.facebook.com/joshua.wakefield.9

The car has been on the drive on axle stands for 5 months so nice to get it off, no oil leaks of any kind so happy about that. hopefully better updates soon. 

 

A3r1Gyb.jpg

Edited by wakeabby14
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wakeabby14 said:

thanks mate, i awlays upload on here want to keep this forum alive haha. 

I do like the  build Information.

I wish do wish people would get more dyno evidence or the site had a setup and dyno graph topic. 

The torque is amazing from the 5efte it has a very good crank to rod ratio just becarful about the hp hit surge. These engines don't like to rev hard/sharp (hp hit) its to do with the crank to rod ratio. 

The 4e is better for hp but the 5e is a beast true torque. 

I'm going to try and get the same torque levels out of the 4e I've just got to tame the hp surge so the torque can be used put on the road. 

Edited by Sam44
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sam44 said:

I do like the  build Information.

I wish do wish people would get more dyno evidence or the site had a setup and dyno graph topic. 

The torque is amazing from the 5efte it has a very good crank to rod ratio just becarful about the hp hit surge. These engines don't like to rev hard/sharp (hp hit) its to do with the crank to rod ratio. 

The 4e is better for hp but the 5e is a beast true torque. 

I'm going to try and get the same torque levels out of the 4e I've just got to tame the hp surge so the torque can be used put on the road. 

I guess you have not seen this? http://www.s314kba.co.uk/leaderboard/

Hasn’t been updated in ages however. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeh I've been studying it recently looking at the difference in hp against torque on all setups. 

What I'm referring to is the difference and relation ship between the 2 on the same car as well as on different cars/setups of the same hp and around same hp different engine 5e/4e. 

For instance look at Ryan langs 4efe hp and now more importantly reference his torque massive now find the nearest 4efe closest to that and whats does its hp read. There's somthing different about his setup unique and ill tell u now his torque curv will be till near redline. That's the car I'd won't to race. Now aply this to others. Now research and speak to people. This approach saves time and alot of money. 

By looking at the torque and not hp in the leader board you will uncover the 5e engine for sure. Then look at the dyno graphs very impressive. Hp and torque side by side. 

Now finally look at the easy hp gains a 4efte can make but torque not so much. 

The 5e is the other way round telling me the 5e has a larger stroke and not a increase in cylinder diameter this is massively important when mapping because the piston will have a slower acceleration past tdc and thrs not alot that can be done about ignition timing will be procise and critical. What helps confirm this is the previous comment and problem with ignition timing setup my advice is run a Very good ecu. with coil on plug if your turbo makes big hp in a small rpm band. Be warned running a piggy back ecu on a 4e ecu will 99% spell disaster. 

We had this very issue tuning the d series Honda engine. 

If you beef up the pistons and rods and pushit, it will take out the big end or crank. 

Edited by Sam44
Link to post
Share on other sites

So I've had issues with mis-firing under any throttle at all it idles ok but super rich.  One of my mates had the exact same issue with his 5E forged build.  He says regardless what he changed ht leads, dizzy ect, car would not run well. He said it only fixed it when he got his standalone ecu.  So only time will tell as all my timing is spot on and im getting spark in all cylinders. hopefully should be buying a link storm at the end of the month so will get it wired in asap then hopefully it fix's it. updates coming soon. 

Edited by wakeabby14
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sam44 said:

Best thing to do. You can get it running on the 4e management but the timing will be retarded in most of the rpm. There's somthing on here about running the 4e timing marks on the cam pully for the 5e. 

yeah i will be using the 4e marks for mapping hopefully the ecu sorts it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The other rout is use a 5efe toyota ecu. With a piggy back but be warned using a piggy back ecu and taking the power gains from standard above around 40% is asking for problems. 

The fact is you are using the standard Toyota map and altering (tricking) parameters. The more you trick and hp you gain the less likely the ecu will spot and warn you about faults and dangers is the system. Unit its to late. Things like seasonal temperature and altitude change the most common area of issue 

Edited by Sam44
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Sam44 said:

The other rout is use a 5efe toyota ecu. With a piggy back but be warned using a piggy back ecu and taking the power gains from standard above around 40% is asking for problems. 

The fact is you are using the standard Toyota map and altering (tricking) parameters. The more you trick and hp you gain the less likely the ecu will spot and warn you about faults and dangers is the system. Unit its to late. Things like seasonal temperature and altitude change the most common area of issue 

not using a piggyback their shite haha, will be using a link storm. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's getting there. Really incredable build. 

Keep them up dates coming. 

I'm running a aem piggy back. But I road map it over 1year in all conditions. The car is also not my main vehicle, so this can be done. 

 

 

 

Edited by Sam44
Link to post
Share on other sites

Great build man, stick in there. The last 5% always takes 95% of the time getting the small details sorted out. 

Just out of interest you aren't using the Injector Dynamics yet? Another thing to check would be what fuel pressure you have with the engine running and vac line pulled off. Think it should be 2.3 bar or something for stock pressure.

Running really rich will cause misfires, it can also foul your spark plugs so would be careful you don't end up damaging them. If you need to replace them then a lot of people (including myself) swear by the copper NKG's rather than the iridiums, you can pick up a set of 4 delivered for less than £10 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-NGK-Spark-Plug-BKR7E/352432780855

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Patches said:

Great build man, stick in there. The last 5% always takes 95% of the time getting the small details sorted out. 

Just out of interest you aren't using the Injector Dynamics yet? Another thing to check would be what fuel pressure you have with the engine running and vac line pulled off. Think it should be 2.3 bar or something for stock pressure.

Running really rich will cause misfires, it can also foul your spark plugs so would be careful you don't end up damaging them. If you need to replace them then a lot of people (including myself) swear by the copper NKG's rather than the iridiums, you can pick up a set of 4 delivered for less than £10 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-NGK-Spark-Plug-BKR7E/352432780855

My problem is timing from the ecu. due to the longer stroke on the crank ect the timing is out in all rev ranges apart from idle, the fuel pressure is at 2.3 bar with the vac line off.  I cannot run the copper plugs as i need to run heat range 8 plugs due to my boost goals.  The ecu should sort it all out. I will be putting the injectors in once the ecu comes so it should be all sorted soon.  Glad you like the build and everyone is enjoying my hard work! cheers boys 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeh Im swapping to copper as soon as I fit a 50kv c5 coil unit. 

The iridium plugs are suseptable to high temps but there a must if using factory ignition coils. I think the peak kv recorded on my starlet was 19kv. which is very poor leading to a small plug gap and weak spark. 

Edited by Sam44
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/27/2020 at 10:49 AM, wakeabby14 said:

My problem is timing from the ecu. due to the longer stroke on the crank ect the timing is out in all rev ranges apart from idle, the fuel pressure is at 2.3 bar with the vac line off.  I cannot run the copper plugs as i need to run heat range 8 plugs due to my boost goals.  The ecu should sort it all out. I will be putting the injectors in once the ecu comes so it should be all sorted soon.  Glad you like the build and everyone is enjoying my hard work! cheers boys 

That's all cool with regards to the fuel pressure, plugs, injectors etc...

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure timing isn't affected by the length of the stroke on the crank. On both 4e and 5e engines the engine position sent to the ECU from the cam sensor in distributor (some 5e's also have a crank sensor but yours doesn't). The stock ignition map from both the 5e and 4e ECU's should be fine to run the car pottering about. What you need to check is that the timing has been set to 10 degrees using a timing light and bridging the relevant pins on the OBD port. Another thing to check is if the timing is correct between the cams and the crank when the timing belt was fitted if its a definitely a timing issue with the car.

I'm not an expert by any means but I have mapped my own car and set the base timing etc and have a bit of experience with poor timing and fueling. When i first started up on the standalone ECU the map was really rich which would start ok, idle ok, rev okish but the minute you put any load on the engine it would misfire which sounds a bit like your issue since you are running rich

Best of luck

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Patches said:

That's all cool with regards to the fuel pressure, plugs, injectors etc...

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure timing isn't affected by the length of the stroke on the crank. On both 4e and 5e engines the engine position sent to the ECU from the cam sensor in distributor (some 5e's also have a crank sensor but yours doesn't). The stock ignition map from both the 5e and 4e ECU's should be fine to run the car pottering about. What you need to check is that the timing has been set to 10 degrees using a timing light and bridging the relevant pins on the OBD port. Another thing to check is if the timing is correct between the cams and the crank when the timing belt was fitted if its a definitely a timing issue with the car.

I'm not an expert by any means but I have mapped my own car and set the base timing etc and have a bit of experience with poor timing and fueling. When i first started up on the standalone ECU the map was really rich which would start ok, idle ok, rev okish but the minute you put any load on the engine it would misfire which sounds a bit like your issue since you are running rich

Best of luck

Ill have a look into it more when i have time later in the month, thanks mate.  i thought it would just run i need to get a timing light on it as everything else is lined up spot on. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick update...

Found my misfire problem, It was not due to the reasons i thought,  It was my fault it was occuring, when i was cleaning and tidying up the engine bay i tucked my MAP sensor behind the inlet manifold but i forgot to re attach a vac line to the MAP sensor, So that was the reason it was misfiring under any load at all.  I've managed to start the car with it plugged all back in however it does not fully mis fire anymore which is good but it just splutters a bit and wont idle by its self currently. Need to get a timing light on it.  Glad i found my mistake easy thing to do i guess.

On another note, i have ordered my Link storm ecu and loads of the other bits needed to run it like knock sensors ect from rob at FISKE so waiting on him making the looms now for the ecu and COP conversion. hopegully get them soon and can start running the car in.  Until then clocking off 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Getin there, happy days 

And from what I can find the difference in ignition timing is on the cam timing marks the 5e position makes up for the stroke difference on cam timing and ignition timing. 

Also the 5efe standard ECU is not compatable with the 4efte because of wired hardware difference mainly the distributor they also have a factory immobiliser on them (you need the lock set)

I've just got a 5efe block and crank for 75quid haha. And a mega squirt V3 standalone ECU. Can't wait. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Soooo.. little update  

Got my Link storm ECU now, there was a slight supply issue with the previous generation of the link storm ecu that i ordered but rob fisher upgraded me to the Link storm X the brand new 2020 model free of charge which is over £160 more for the issue, so top bloke on that one cant wait for him to map it at racecal.  He is also in the process of making the final loom and COP looms up and should have it by this weekend hopefully... so more photos will be coming. 

Also my door cards have been missing the plastic covers for the handles you close the doors with and also the switches since i got it, So i picked up a few plastics off facebook and started tidying up the interior a bit while waiting for the ecu so the door cards look 100x better does not look trashy anymore. 

While sorting the door cards at the weekend i also took a few photos of the car for fun so ill put a few of them up in this post too :)  I also picked up a carbon rear mid spoiler for £120 it is scratched on the top and i dont like carbon too much so im probs going to paint it (which is debatable by most peoples view) but dont care unless someone wants to swap a 040 white one for my carbon one. :)  Oh and I have ordered a Tuning developments 3inch exhaust too im going to modify to suit my 3 inch downpipe. 

nYqq2BS.jpg

6GjAs64.jpg

hQJ54e6.jpg

RqGF5uh.jpg

fm47uqR.jpg

sYBsQXy.jpg

cRysvkR.jpg

j2Us4GS.jpg


wFaYtjB.jpg
 

Edited by wakeabby14
Added photo
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • wakeabby14 changed the title to Josh's forged 5E Massive spec forged build! 370BHP!!

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...