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I do need a spare 4efe to measure up for pistons. 

I was looking at figures from the acis manifolds on the 3sgte and 3sge. With the 3sge engine and manifold out proforming the K20 vetec honda. so you could be onto somthing. 

Remembering the 3sge and different 3sgte manifolds are a different design to the 5efhe. So this gives room for ideas designes. 

My only worry is the turbo design and cam arangement on my setup. Against the high lift and duration cams on the 5ehfe leading to the adaptive acis intake manifold design. Looking at Dyno graphs on these setups on the 4e and 5e the manifold changes over runners (long narrow to short fat) around 5krpm. Ramping up low rpm intake gas speeds (velocity) to access the cams 5k+rpm peak flow rates\power/torque. 

The problem here with the cam arrangements and turbo design I have. Cams are the lowest rpm peak flow rate cam setup on the 4efe with peak flow around 4krpm. Giving good off the line power (low rpm torque)  This allows me to drop the peak rpm red line by 1krpm so 6000rpm limit.  The turbo tdo4 13t billet hyb design is to operate at normal 3.5krpm to 5krpm range with a slower smoother surge of boost in this range (spool up) for control and engine reliability. delivering better air volumes in this range giving greater torque (3.5krpm to 6krpm) than a standard tdo4. for the desired target of the hyb turbo operational range to be met the intake & exhaust manifold design and cam arrangment are critical. The turbo also reduces mid to peak rpm egt levels for reliability and power gains. 

The 5efe paseo intake manifold I'm currently running gives great power (flow rates) from base to peak rpm but the power balancing of the engine is off with cylinder 1 being the weakest down nearly 20% at 6psi boost levels against cylinder 3 at the 100% reference strongest cylinder). 

The intake and exhaust manifold design on these almost controls the power balance offset the other factor is cylinder temp. I'm also massively impressed with the rolla inlets base to 2.5k rpm power levels/flow rates and equally alarmed by its 4.5krpm power drop because of its very small plenium design. 

The even length exhaust manifold like the zisco (narrow diameter even length runners) giving better low to mid range rpm gas speeds. the bigger diameter exhaust manifold designes aiming at peak rpm volumes not really contributing to gas speed at lower rpm levels. 

The acis in standard 5ehfe design requiring the 5ehfe cams would more suit a good mid range turbo like the ct9b hyb or a gt17 to 20 turbo or tdo35. Really ramping up the mid to peak rpm power levels to tdo4l levels with much better low rpm spool up, giving a almost complete rpm power range. If the owner now runs a better transmission gear set this design on the road would be near unbeatable by my calculation under 5sec to 60mph achievable and equally impressive 0 to 100mph times.I would strongly recommend the largest diameter external waste gate to be used as well as a 68deg thermo state with egt and cylinder temp cylinder 1&2 needing to be the very real fouces here or else the starlet will be just another engine dead statistic on here. Like most of the high boost ct9 & ct9 hyb mapped cars and certianly track cars I've read about. The garret gtx17 on the zisco designed exhaust manifold and acis cam and manifold would be insanely fast on the C63 gearbox. This setup would also give great road speed level control, as well as very good reliability on both engine and gearbox. The only real room for improvement here would be engine efficiency mpg.

If a larger turbo wanted for track then play with the exhaust manifold diameter to achieve good spool up results also accessing good road speeds. Im also of the opinion this set up would hit these speeds with around 200 to 220hp allowing a standard 4efte engine to be used but I would recommend forged pistons and ACL high load bigend bearings. As well as a oil cooler.

The design I'm running follows this design but aims at reducing all the nasty temp and power balance issues allowing the high compression ratio more efficient (better mpg) 4efe engine to be used. The higher compression ratio heavier piston crown in the 4efe is why it runs weaker valve springs to cap peak rpm it also has a noticeable lowwer redline limit.

Not requiring forged internal or oil coolers and a better in car heat 78deg thermostat to be run for winter defrosting needs. Target hp 240 with equal or more torque. With the buget of the build set at £8k max. 

Edited by Sam44
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Has anyone ever installed a under chassis fuel cooler to there starlet. With these being batch firing affecting valve head temperaturez, as well running a fuel return to tank system. I've been monitoring fuel tank temp and I'm seeing 40+degc tank temps and higher under bonnet fuel temps. 

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I've have a mega squirt V3 here which I'm playing with the idea of putting on, but the standard map is a good well developed map easily manipulated so I'm finding there's no real need as I approach 200hp+. Basically it's not cost and time beneficial at this point to move from the aem piggy back. 

I'm still finding lots of problem areas that can and will affect power. 

With these being indirect injection the batch firing injection can lend a hand in cooling the inlet valve heads. And air charge. Especially as there has been alot of effort put into cylinder mixing on the 4efe I have. But these fuel temperatures I'm getting have a large scope for improvement. 

The benefits are, possible mpg gains with sequential. But I'm unconvinced at this point the time involved would be worth it.  The standard 4efe map suits the basic engines requirements very well. Sorting threw the problem areas and finding the errors as I call them, the area of development at present. then I will see what the power graph looks like and make a decision if the V3 is worth it or needed my target power level is 240hp with equal torque. 

Another area of concern is the engine breather system and crank case pressure's. 

I've recently had a set of 295cc standard injectors cleaned and tested that I have swapped In For a set of old 295cc units, and I highly recommend doing this with the age of these vehicles. I saw a difference straight away. 

1 hour ago, RobSR said:

Why did you swap from batch to sequential?

 

Edited by Sam44
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  • 2 weeks later...

Im at a cross roads\tipping point on my build and in need of Some information off any of you guys running 220hp+ on the 4e engine. 

I could do with some mpg figures as acreate as possible with turbo and ECU used 

Thank you in advance for the help. PM me them if you don't want to disclose this information to the public. 

Edited by Sam44
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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

Morning all.

Because of work commitments over seas at present I'm not sure when I'll be back working on the starlet. 

So here are some videos I've been enjoying whilst I'm traveling across the Atlantic. 

Some of my favourite tracks to drive Istanbul probably my very favourite in either direction I really do not mind. For me it's like a mix up of spain, China & Belgium it's that good. Driving it reverse anticlockwise is a huge challenge for me to get right/fast. Turn 8 is a race killer. It's like Spain's turn 3 it will make or break you. I always dread Istanbul as it aprouches in the race calender which also means if you have a good race here the sence of joy you get.  

Watch out for the bump/hump 

Edited by Sam44
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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks skinny. 

Your not far off our predicted hp going off the fueling. We have estimated just over 200hp. It's making relatively easy hp. Great spool also. I'm very impressed with this little engine. Opening it up it should work it's a bit of a mess of a combustion chamber/valve arrangement but it does. 

Edited by Sam44
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23 hours ago, Sam44 said:

Thanks skinny. 

Your not far off our predicted hp going off the fueling. We have estimated just over 200hp. It's making relatively easy hp. Great spool also. I'm very impressed with this little engine. Opening it up it should work it's a bit of a mess of a combustion chamber/valve arrangement but it does. 

I was going to estimate around 160+bhp as this is what I was quoted by Tuning developments for a 4efe + t using a TD04l at 0.5bar boost. But this was on glanza injectors with a 255lph pump.

We all know a Glanza produces circa. 200bhp with TD04l at 1 bar boost again with 295cc injectors and 255lph pump.

Being as my turbo setup and fuelling arrangements are yet to be set in stone can you detail which parts are needed to get the extra 40hp at 0.5 bar boost please?

Your setup (from memory) 370cc injectors, 340lph + 255 lph pumps, fuel cooler and an adjustable fpr set at ??psi? 

Would a 600lph single pump work instead?

Looking forward to the results, lots of graphs with boost and AFR please. So frustrating when this info is missing. Interested to see the spool also (boost vs rpm).

 

Edited by Claymore
430 should have been 340
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Of course. 

There is also ported head, stronger valve springs which do seal the valves alot better, as well as the hand worked engine removing alot of high friction/resistance areas, twin 57mm throttle, thermal gaskets used on intake system, water spray on the intercooler core, all in all reducing charge temps by upto 75% giving air density a kick in the right direction (we have found good mpg benefits of using increased air temps on Cruze conditions, so more development to come in this area). As well as low anertia items like flywheel clutch unit. Crank, front pully. 

Dan has also recently managed to get the ruff layout of the engine breather system and antilag control installed. So far increasing turbo spool nicely, much more to come from this. 

The hybrid tdo4l has really impressed me. Baby tdo5. But I followed the tunning guide handed to me with all the problem areas to get hp from. It's come good. Saving alot of time and money. 

Better injectors are needed and next year we hope to install the radiator in the rear using an electrical water pump removing the standard unit, also the corrola waste spark ignition to go in, oil cooler and thermo, but not before the Dyno results. 

It's the torque figures I'm interested in. @ around 160hp these cars are very very capable and to be fair there's nothing much in times to 100mph between 160hp and 200hp on the same gearbox and diff. So I can see why experienced runners would set power levels at the hp (also very safe) It's the torque that makes the difference here. What we have found threw testing is the higher hp levels you go the harder and more aggresive you have to launch/gear to hit the lowwer street time targets (0 to 60 mph)(40 to 100mph) almost killing reliability/service life of major components. unless a shed load of procise work is carried out.  

Dan is on with the suspension and brake referbishment as we speak. 

 

 

IMG_20201012_092634.jpg

Edited by Sam44
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On the single fuel pump idea, I believe not. it's the fact of running 2x good fuel pumps that reduces pressure problems, but I can't see why it would not work/ I've not run a single very high volume pump. 

I'm running 4bar fixed fuel pressure at present these old denso injectors will not flow/deliver any more fuel above this pressure. I might add here that at this increased pressure I'm very concerned about the service life of these injectors. 

The starlet electrical system that is a big pit fall as we recorded fuel delivery issues with the charging system under high load. 

We have fitted a high capacity battery, referbed later ep91 alternator (lighter in weight) and a sperate high amp circuit for the twin fuel pumps that returns to battery. As well as the very high kv race coil allowing us to increase the plug gap/spark surface area. 

Edited by Sam44
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On 10/5/2020 at 6:43 PM, Sam44 said:

Question:    what will a standard tdo4 4efe make hp wise at .5 bar of boost. 

The starlet is booked in for a power run on the Dyno. 

We have a predicted hp going off the fueling. 

Lol I thought you meant 200 bhp from a stock 4efe engine aswell as turbo and only fuel mods! Seems there's quite a lot of time and effort put into the engine alone to gain good hp increase over the 160hp.

Too complicated for my build / budget but I'm interested in the results all the same.

I though it was a bit too much of a miracle!

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