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Starlet Ep91 4efe turbo conversion.


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Modified 5e intake manifold to house the 4efe intake temp sensor. 

1598900771338453502544.jpg

1598901055904106747061.jpg

The more robust 4etfe intake air temperature sensor (thermistor) does share the same resistance values as the plastic 4efe unit and is threaded so can be used. 

1598901939678906804315.jpg

Edited by Sam44
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12 hours ago, Sam44 said:

Modified 5e intake manifold to house the 4efe intake temp sensor. 

The more robust 4etfe intake air temperature sensor (thermistor) does share the same resistance values as the plastic 4efe unit and is threaded so can be used.

Nice touch mounting the sensor (better than in the glove box 🤭).

Looks like a second generation 5efe manifold? Do you know what the differences to the 4efe stock starlet manifold are? I'm sure I read that the first gen 5efe manifold is the same as 4efte (short, fat runners) larger TB port, but I also read that the second gen is the same as starlet 4efe? Internet BS perhaps.

Also I take it the fte sensor has a different plug shape? 

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1 hour ago, Claymore said:

Nice touch mounting the sensor (better than in the glove box 🤭).

Looks like a second generation 5efe manifold? Do you know what the differences to the 4efe stock starlet manifold are? I'm sure I read that the first gen 5efe manifold is the same as 4efte (short, fat runners) larger TB port, but I also read that the second gen is the same as starlet 4efe? Internet BS perhaps.

Also I take it the fte sensor has a different plug shape? 

The intake runners are slightly longer than on the 4efe, other than that its pretty much the same. I'll do a side by comparison as soon as I get home. 

Yeh the electrical plugs are different for the intake air temp sensors. The one I have here is off a ep91 1997 glanza v, it has a gray plug, but I've tested both at different related temps and the readings are identical. 

I've reduced intake air temp by around 20degC. This will help the 4efe plastic sensor reading and service life expectancy, as well as engine torque output. 

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On 9/2/2020 at 5:52 PM, burty said:

Must admit I'm not that clued up on the mechanical side of things but finding this thread a cracking read keep it up 

Thanks burty.

I'm hoping to be back from work duties for a weekend soon (it's been a crazy few month since being back) to get alittle more done and hopefully start to get some development started on the dyno very soon. I'm starting back on a high intensity fitness routine to give me more energy for when im off work, so development does not stall before winter. 

This is the plan. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The lift difference between the UK ep91 4efe and 4efte inlet cam. 

1st up 4efe

 

IMG_20200915_132956.jpg

4efte inlet cam bellow. 

 

IMG_20200915_133046.jpg

.8mm more lift on the 4efte unit. Which can clearly be seen on the Dyno graph torque peak and length. 

I'll update this with duration and other cams I have here (5efe, 5ehfe, gen1 JDM ep80, gen1 4efe E11 corrolla.

After speaking with some of the older Jamaican lads in order to utilize the tubular corrolla inlet manifold and align it with this cam (to slow the torque drop off around 5.5krpm) holding the torque as high for as long as possible this modification has been recommended. Extending the manifolds plenium chamber. From what I'm being told this modified manifold is good for 260hp. Providing great power balance and torque figures.

 

 

IMG_2461.jpg

Edited by Sam44
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21 minutes ago, Sam44 said:

The lift difference between the UK ep91 4efe and 4efte inlet cam. 

1st up 4efe

 

IMG_20200915_132956.jpg

4efte inlet cam bellow. 

 

IMG_20200915_133046.jpg

.8mm more lift on the 4efte unit. Which can clearly be seen on the Dyno graph torque peak and length. 

I'll update this with duration and other cams I have here (5efe, 5ehfe, gen1 JDM ep80, gen1 4efe E11 corrolla.

 

Interesting, I take it the base circle of both cams are the same size?

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Yes the cam circle with out the cam profile is identical working to .1mm on vernia calipers. 

I will dti the cams in, and plot lift (mm) against duration (deg) on all to see if any other cams have been over looked threw out the years. 

Edited by Sam44
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Yeh I'm not with the cams at present. I'm out of the country, talking to my coworker/mate ho is at the starlet doing some work on it. 

The idea is to get a full cam configuration on all cam sets. I'm also very interested in the durations/timing of all cams as the lift has been missed. 

Edited by Sam44
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38 minutes ago, Sam44 said:

Yeh I'm not with the cams at present. I'm out of the country, talking to my coworker/mate ho is at the starlet doing some work on it. 

The idea is to get a full cam configuration on all cam sets. I'm also very interested in the durations/timing of all cams as the lift has been missed. 

The slight frustration is that the cams are slaved together so adjusting them individually is difficult. Have seen a few modified gears but not really impressed.

There are adjustable pulleys as you know.

Don't mind the drop in solution of turbo cam or N/A cam. Easier choice to make.

Seems weird to me that in the 30 odd years of tuning the fe and fte that no one noticed a cam lift difference?!

Maybe no one cared about the fe enough to check.

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Yeh its crazy, and yep I've seen some fruity adaptation recently.

I spotted it as soon as I saw the Dyno graphs and guest it to be just under 1mm the duration looks to be the same I'd guess at. It has been documented in this tuning guide Ive been given off the previous owner but no direct measurements.  Another issue is indirect injection against cam timing and lift this is why batch firing suits the 4e just fine. 

Personally if I was going near 7krpm redline I'd go a slight increase in overlap with tons more lift on both cams. (Gtx20+ /tdo4) the valve head circumference (inlet&exhaust) restrictions are by far the biggest issue. Key area lift. 

Edited by Sam44
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On 9/17/2020 at 1:53 PM, Sam44 said:

http://upg-shop.com/product/1849/toyota-4e-fte-1-3-16v-piper-cams-fast-road-turbo-camshafts.html

These look very interesting. 

These are great for street proformance.

The speedvision cams are aimed at track proformance. 

Interesting cams seem to be old stock can't find them anymore on piper cams. Since my cams are a bit worn may start looking into alternatives. Any big gains from these with a ct9 or near worthless with stock ct9?

 

Also these ultimate road cams avaible http://upg-shop.com/product/1848/toyota-4e-fte-1-3-16v-piper-cams-ultimate-road-turbo-camshafts.html

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As soon as I'm back I'll start to measure the standard configuration against all other sets out there. At the present i can't find any measurements on the standard timing and lift on any of the E series engines. This is a good starting point. 

I might even get Dyno results on a standard tdo4l. So people can start to get a fix on cam timing and lift. 

With these engines being non-interference there not going to contact the piston rather the springs become coil bound as well as the need for under bucket sims. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Sam44
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52 minutes ago, Sam44 said:

As soon as I'm back I'll start to measure the standard configuration against all other sets out there. At the present i can't find any measurements on the standard timing and lift on any of the E series engines. This is a good starting point. 

Found this on the gtt website from 11 years ago. Seems to have some errors. Can't say for sure what info is correct or incorrect as I've not measured anything but it would be interesting to see the differences when the cams are actually measured against this info for reference.

Engine20comparison.gif

Maybe the turbo cam lift increase was an update, perhaps the early gt's or the later glanza's had different specs? Perhaps Toyota were using up the N/A cams at the end of glanza production and this is the one example that was measured that has caused the confusion? I know you have lots of turbo cams knocking around, are they all the same increased lift?

I also saw on a Matt berry youtube vid that the 5efhe's with and without ACIS have exhaust cam differences. Could be BS also. LOL.

Looking forward to the results.

Edited by Claymore
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Yeh alot of guess work going on between the different car models it seems. 

Same with the gearbox information online, alot of comparisons going on between things like the g6 and g6r boxes where as straightaway I'm finding differences. The misinformation super highway strikes again. 

Dutchie these cams are designed for a ct9 style turbo with more lift so I'd say your good. With a increase in mid to topend power levels. But check for case hardening and lift against springs. The increased lift increases overlap slightly, but not by much. 

Recently I witnessed a cam setup were the high exhaust temp and back pressure (which a ct9 on high boost can produce) was playing right into the hands of big valve overlap with low lift available killing the topend power. These are the polar opposite.

Edited by Sam44
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  • Sam44 changed the title to Starlet Ep91 4efe turbo conversion.

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