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4 minutes ago, Sam44 said:

Sorry Gavin about this game of ukso tennis on your build thread. There will always be difference of opinion on even how to research your build. Rob you asked me for evidence and I have given it you. I'd suggest to Gavin to get you to build him an engine with a full warranty for 300+hp if you can do this I will have 1 as well. 

It wasn’t evidence tho was it.. it was someone’s opinion; I’m giving Gavin evidence so he doesn’t shell out unnecessarily.

Gavin, the last 3 cars I did were 463bhp, 408bhp and 360bhp, all were stock cap, all have had no problems. 
 

Fiske have an engine build in for a customer at the moment and it will be over 300bhp and supplied with a warranty, the company has no issue doing that if it’s done to a certain spec with an ecu that has a logbook. 
 

You can message my brother if you’re interested in the companies services or myself if you’re just after general first hand , tried and tested advice :) 

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All the ones I've heard of with broken big end caps stem from abuse of the motor ie no servicing and dropping from 5th to 4th giving it full torque. These motors are old now think people keep forgetting that. Keep them serviced they will go on and on. Mine only really comes out to go on track these days and it's still going strong. I'd like to have had crank plate and and billet mains but would have had to have that done when the engine was built. 

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you dont need billet main caps to run 300bhp...that's none sense. info on the TD website is bollocks too...they have severely under stated the capability of stock caps to promote/sell the billet caps..this is pretty typical of TD..

my car is running a shy over 600bhp(flywheel) at the moment on stock caps and i know many others around the world and locally here in Sri Lanka (friends and customers) who run in the 400-500bhp range on stock caps.

i am in the process of getting custom billet caps now because i plan to push another +100-150bhp on my build. 

there have been very rare circumstances where stock caps have failed at lower power ranges...but this is few and far between and to generalize and say you need billet caps for anything over 300bhp is just silly and any "expert" who asks you to get billet caps for anything over 300bhp is either trying to sell you something you dont't need or they don't have much experience with starlets...simple as that.

DONT get me wrong...IF..you have the budget...by all means get billet caps...but its by no means an absolute requirement for 99% of people building 4e/5e engines.

my post is not in any way a personal dig at Sam...i am just stating facts...i've seen a lot of mis-information being spread on the forum lately..

Go with what Josh has recommended.. if going with Chinese rods...choose SCAT. they have thicker arp bolts.

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10 hours ago, RobSR said:

Nice progress so far.

The black box you mentioned in your pics above is for the indigo dials you have. 
 

Josh has given you good advice on the engine build. 
 

Sam, can you show the evidence of ‘alot of engines over 300 cracking caps’? I’ve seen one and have run 460bhp on stock caps without issue. 
Gav, for your build you won’t need billet caps.

Ah cheers bud it was leading up in to that area! I think that’s what I am going to do source all the parts then get my local engine builder to do the rest is it work getting the crank ground .25 with the overaized bearings or just leave it as is if all is ok? 
mom thanks for the caps info I’ve only seen a handful of people use them I guess it’s more of a if you can afford the extra it always helps

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5 hours ago, wickedep said:

you dont need billet main caps to run 300bhp...that's none sense. info on the TD website is bollocks too...they have severely under stated the capability of stock caps to promote/sell the billet caps..this is pretty typical of TD..

my car is running a shy over 600bhp(flywheel) at the moment on stock caps and i know many others around the world and locally here in Sri Lanka (friends and customers) who run in the 400-500bhp range on stock caps.

i am in the process of getting custom billet caps now because i plan to push another +100-150bhp on my build. 

there have been very rare circumstances where stock caps have failed at lower power ranges...but this is few and far between and to generalize and say you need billet caps for anything over 300bhp is just silly and any "expert" who asks you to get billet caps for anything over 300bhp is either trying to sell you something you dont't need or they don't have much experience with starlets...simple as that.

DONT get me wrong...IF..you have the budget...by all means get billet caps...but its by no means an absolute requirement for 99% of people building 4e/5e engines.

my post is not in any way a personal dig at Sam...i am just stating facts...i've seen a lot of mis-information being spread on the forum lately..

Go with what Josh has recommended.. if going with Chinese rods...choose SCAT. they have thicker arp bolts.

Cheers for the info bud much appreciated unsure on the legalities of the bonnet exit I was messaging you about on Facebook so may have to get the bonnet exit and a side exit if possible!

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2 hours ago, Gav Missen said:

Ah cheers bud it was leading up in to that area! I think that’s what I am going to do source all the parts then get my local engine builder to do the rest is it work getting the crank ground .25 with the overaized bearings or just leave it as is if all is ok? 
mom thanks for the caps info I’ve only seen a handful of people use them I guess it’s more of a if you can afford the extra it always helps

Yeh as said it's only 1 persons advice that can be helpful to another. I have spoken to around 30 people at present which have warned me about running around 300hp due to all types of failures, not just cracked main caps. It does seem to be a upper level limiting factor. 

Saying this as a percentage of these people more than 25% have had caps fail. Just saying you can make up your own mind as to how high or low this figure is. 

All in the UK, which is very interesting. It would be good for me to hear from people out side of the UK. 

 

 

 

Edited by Sam44
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Many people in the U.S. have used 4e and 5e engines and 300 to 400whp is achieved with stock caps. There is even a 524whp turbo 5e that lasted with the stock main caps but when pushing that power many things start to go wrong. The main caps were not the first to give. 

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51 minutes ago, mycars12 said:

Many people in the U.S. have used 4e and 5e engines and 300 to 400whp is achieved with stock caps. There is even a 524whp turbo 5e that lasted with the stock main caps but when pushing that power many things start to go wrong. The main caps were not the first to give. 

We might have to start another topic here on this subject sorry Gavin. Yeh I believe the 5e has better stronger caps out of factory than on the 4e I believe these break on the bridge heel is thinner. Just from the information people have shared with me. I do have a 5e block here and I'm waiting for a 4e engine to turn up so I can start to see the differences. 

If you have had this happen to you on a 4e feel free to message me. 

But send me any links you have and people to talk to running big power levels. Definitely room to gauge more information. Before I embark on a 5e or 4e forged build. 

Thanks for any info guys. 

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10 hours ago, Gav Missen said:

Ah cheers bud it was leading up in to that area! I think that’s what I am going to do source all the parts then get my local engine builder to do the rest is it work getting the crank ground .25 with the overaized bearings or just leave it as is if all is ok? 
mom thanks for the caps info I’ve only seen a handful of people use them I guess it’s more of a if you can afford the extra it always helps

No problem!

If the crank doesn’t need to be ground I wouldn’t, as you leave more material for future if you ever need to then. A polish would suffice if all in spec but your chosen engine builder will advise. 
 

Caps are more hassle than they’re worth for most builds in all honesty, I’ve put a set in the latest engine revision which is being finished at the moment, but this has been built for ~550bhp so not your average build; they were a pain in the ass, the thrust machining wasn’t perfect so had to be rectified; then they all need line boring and honing too etc. 

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9 hours ago, wakeabby14 said:

Also what i forgot to mention is while your cylinder head is off your best of doing new valve stem seals getting it skimmed etc also i would 100% recommend uprated valve springs as the stock springs are fairly soft and under high boost you will get valve float. 

Cheers Josh 

Cheers mate was reading up on this yesterday was planning on getting the updated valve springs then a 3 angle cut on the valves and the seal done ! Should be good once it’s all done 

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3 hours ago, Sam44 said:

We might have to start another topic here on this subject sorry Gavin. Yeh I believe the 5e has better stronger caps out of factory than on the 4e I believe these break on the bridge heel is thinner. Just from the information people have shared with me. I do have a 5e block here and I'm waiting for a 4e engine to turn up so I can start to see the differences. 

If you have had this happen to you on a 4e feel free to message me. 

But send me any links you have and people to talk to running big power levels. Definitely room to gauge more information. Before I embark on a 5e or 4e forged build. 

Thanks for any info guys. 

Sam don’t suppose you would want to sell that 5e block 🤔

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1 hour ago, RobSR said:

No problem!

If the crank doesn’t need to be ground I wouldn’t, as you leave more material for future if you ever need to then. A polish would suffice if all in spec but your chosen engine builder will advise. 
 

Caps are more hassle than they’re worth for most builds in all honesty, I’ve put a set in the latest engine revision which is being finished at the moment, but this has been built for ~550bhp so not your average build; they were a pain in the ass, the thrust machining wasn’t perfect so had to be rectified; then they all need line boring and honing too etc. 

Sweet cheers bud I see what you mean so if anything happens in future I can regrind it then! Nice one 

yeah the caps seem a lot of hassle 

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Small progress tonight as was working late moved back on to cleaning the block up as there was still bits I wasn’t happy with it’s coming up alright now still need to take the flywheel and cover off to get behind there but the rest is coming up ok! 
also thanks for everyone’s help so far really appreciate it!04C70D6D-7E1C-4D42-8CA2-E9D1769FA288.thumb.jpeg.566dfb31e7d0f031ce87a1f5d090d919.jpeg3F7F4BC8-D567-4DE1-BFD7-84769F471C28.thumb.jpeg.0c41ade05f28708b43ee736db7fc4047.jpeg087E5A2E-A3E8-4F7C-A771-409C35DFF393.thumb.jpeg.bc8c319cbdb2bc39e53593c9f4d34ebf.jpeg130F2581-ED48-42E6-A4D5-3147F394FEE7.thumb.jpeg.b6a1fe9f0b34ff0d5233ab16e6c0acef.jpegE427676E-A66C-4CDA-B773-32E707872FEB.thumb.jpeg.61f93df095b3f417ed8f9edb00b78428.jpeg734DEF0D-EBDD-4966-AB28-80DFA3EE3A05.thumb.jpeg.caedd28061e450008e9b3765c4819028.jpeg

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I was wondering about the fitment of the caps. it's hard to buy caps separately from the block as there normally inline honed together alot of the engines I work on have snapped off crank caps being produced as part of the block. 

I'm going to hold onto the 5e. This might be the engine for me to push I've just bought another starlet shell last week also. 

Let's build some little rocket ships. 

 

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  • 1 year later...
17 hours ago, Patches said:

Nice one dude! Glad to see your still going ahead

Last year and this year was just a nightmare for me, couldn’t get parts or find the spare time.

going to try and sort some bits this weekend and maybe move the car to a unit as it gets far to dark early to be working on it outside! 
looking to get the engine sent off shortly after Xmas 

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  • 4 months later...

IM BACK

sorry for the delay! Had a lot going on and the glanza got neglected 👎🏽
BUT… 

the engine is now all packed up and ready to be dropped off at SSperformance this coming Saturday 😬

fully forged bottom end & head rebuilt with uprated valve springs 

also been in contact with sascha at wepr regarding manifolds and decided on a s/s top mount kit… is this worth getting ceramic coated? 
next I’ll soon have to get in touch with rob sr regarding some id1050x injectors! 
wish you could tag people on here 😂

that’s the update for now 

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  • Gav Missen changed the title to Gav’s 98 SPEC 4E FORGED BUILD

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