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4efe SWAP to 4efte in Corolla E11 1998


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9 hours ago, Sam44 said:

i dont think 7.4krpm is classed as screaming its tits off. which on W.O.T conditions it would be achievable should there be a hot spot in the cylinder.  

It is when the ecu sets the rev limit at 6.?k rpm!? I never said it was impossible, I said it was unlikely to occur. Therfore probably not the main reason for the spring choice.

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im not talking about the ems rpm limiter. 

with one of the most common garage visits being overheated engine (coolant lose) its more of a threat than you would think. 

regardless of why the springs are there, the fact remains they are different. 

i was told about this difference, and given the best reason i could see quoting the much heavier 4efe domed pistons, and im inclined to agree. 

Edited by Sam44
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I’m loving this conversation. Very interesting. Still sitting tight to understand if I should rather buy a complete 4EFTE engine without gearbox to be adapted on my 4EFE or either turbocharge my 4EFE. I heard a lot and nothing seems the perfect choice. As MY mechanic DOESN’t have experience on this particular engine, I cannot risk to start a conversion and drown my budget. Could  you guys please help me before I go the wrong way? I really need a list of components I shall buy for either options. A list of components, tips and brand. Two turbo charge my engine I will need a lot of 4EFTE parts that I don’t know for sure I would find. This way I can search for prices and see which option would be cheaper. I remind that I own a Corolla E11 with a 1998 4efe with 230k Km. 4efte engines like the one I have ready to buy has 60k Km.

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5 hours ago, Sam44 said:

i was told about this difference, and given the best reason i could see quoting the much heavier 4efe domed pistons, and im inclined to agree. 

Right at the beginning you said the 4efe pistons were too heavy to rev to high rpm and Toyota used soft valve springs to physically limit the engine as it would tear itself apart because of g forces if it managed to rev too high blah blah.

And then you posted: 

  15 hours ago, Sam44 said:

i dont think 7.4krpm is classed as screaming its tits off. which on W.O.T conditions it would be achievable should there be a hot spot in the cylinder.  

It seems like a contradiction to me. 7400rpm with heavy 4efe pistons isn't screaming its tits off now?

You go back and edit your posts so often its difficult to keep track of this anymore.

I'm done :unknw:

44 minutes ago, Frankieflowers said:

I’m loving this conversation. Very interesting. Still sitting tight to understand if I should rather buy a complete 4EFTE engine without gearbox to be adapted on my 4EFE or either turbocharge my 4EFE. I heard a lot and nothing seems the perfect choice. As MY mechanic DOESN’t have experience on this particular engine, I cannot risk to start a conversion and drown my budget. Could  you guys please help me before I go the wrong way? I really need a list of components I shall buy for either options. A list of components, tips and brand. Two turbo charge my engine I will need a lot of 4EFTE parts that I don’t know for sure I would find. This way I can search for prices and see which option would be cheaper. I remind that I own a Corolla E11 with a 1998 4efe with 230k Km. 4efte engines like the one I have ready to buy has 60k Km.

Hey Frankie,

It is probably best to buy a complete 4efte engine and get it fitted to your car that way you don't have to hunt for rare Toyota components on their own. Sam44 has posted all the info you need in this thread I think.

Maybe you could make a list of parts you think you need from the information on this thread and people will advise if its ok?

Don't forget to start a build thread in the:

https://www.ukstarletowners.com/forum/43-other-motors-progress-blogs/

Cheers

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just explaining the process of which lead me to this concision on the valve springs. that was suggested to me by other that have worked on these engines in the past. 

also enjoying going threw your suggestions, seeing if it leads to another possible reason, as well as tidying up the threads for others in the future. im nearly always on my laptop doing work related stuff, so as i engage the topic on these cars i cant give it my full attention hence all the edits. as well as keeping it tidy. 

EDIT: the 7.4krpm is in relation to 4efe piston weight and deceleration Gforces, leading to the 6.4krpm factory 4efe rpm limmit  

Edited by Sam44
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the other interesting thing here about the 4efe domed piston is its weight is not evenly spread across the piston crown (imbalance). the exhaust side/half of the piston is heavier but the only piston skirt and bore wear happens on the other side (inlet)??.  to me this is an obvious sign of were the combustion power is happening (crazy oddly shaped combustion chamber)

the same wear is present on the 4efte engine (flat top balanced piston)

Edited by Sam44
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as said by claymore me personally id get a 1998 glanza v 4efte complete with turbo (ct9b).@ 60k km it should be in great working order.  

to identify a ct9b turbo = on the alloy compressor housing it has no raised CT9 markings cast into the housing. the earlier ct9a does. ill put up a picture of the difference. also the ct9b has 9 blades in total on the exhaust turbine. 

the ct9b only came on the later glanza v engines. 

ct9b pictures below 

 

ct9b.jpg

ct9b turbine.jpg

 

ct9a pictures below

 

 

 

ct9a.jpeg

ct9a turbine.jpeg

Edited by Sam44
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7 hours ago, Sam44 said:

as said by claymore me personally id get a 1998 glanza v 4efte complete with turbo (ct9b).@ 60k km it should be in great working order.  

to identify a ct9b turbo = on the alloy compressor housing it has no raised CT9 markings cast into the housing. the earlier ct9a does. ill put up a picture of the difference. also the ct9b has 9 blades in total on the exhaust turbine. 

the ct9b only came on the later glanza v engines. 

ct9b pictures below 

 

ct9b.jpg

ct9b turbine.jpg

 

ct9a pictures below

 

 

 

ct9a.jpeg

ct9a turbine.jpeg

Interesting. Thank you for sharing. How can I identify this detail when I buy an engine from the UK. Should I ask the seller to get the turbo apart and confirm it is the turbo I’m looking for?

 

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9 hours ago, Claymore said:

Maybe you could make a list of parts you think you need from the information on this thread and people will advise if its ok?

 

Wise. From all the information that these amazing guys gave me I shall put myself a short list together and wait for feedbacks. Fact is that I am not an expert like you guys are. My concern was to follow somebody’s lead and bye the extra components with the full engine and make sure I wouldn’t have to put on hold the conversion as my mechanic won’t let me do it.

What learned so far Is that I need an EP 91 4EFTE complete engine with uncut fuse box with a ct9b turbo. I will need a high-performance fuel pump. Minimum maintainance such as water pump and belts. I will get my custom exhaust welded to the 4efte manifold. The airbox sensor should be adapted in the inlet but I don’t know how. The ECU will go straight in. The fuse box swap will be quite easy I guess because I will be able to unplug and plug step-by-step every wire. About the gearbox. It should go straight in the 4EFE gearbox that @Sam44 told me has shorter gears as the car is heavier compared to a Starlet  It will be better to drive. I read about an adaption I should make to fit the engine using a custom aluminum 2 mm thickness to avoid an oil leak. I have to go back to see exactly what was it about. The front and rear 4efte loom mount should be straightforward. The steering pump works perfect for the conversion. This is what I read about but I also read that there is a fix to pick up the oil for the turbo. This is something else I should get details about.

This is what I gathered so far and I should get more details about the mechanical fixes that has to be done precisely in order to discuss it with the mechanic.

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On 10/10/2020 at 12:51 AM, Sam44 said:

I've been looking at corrola makes and models/years today. It will be the dissless\waste spark system on your corrola is alot better system compared to the distributor 4efte type, which in all honesty I'd keep and use a piggy back control unit to allow you to alter fueling/fuel cut and ignition timing. The detmaster 3 seems to be a great bit of kit for £150. 

You will make good power. 

You should not have a problem finding someone to map it. Its very user friendly. 

I can do you a wiring diagram if you do fancy converting the engine wiring to accept a GT turbo ECU. 

There are afew component plugs and components you will need. Listed in my first reply. 

The jap 4efte powered cars did not run immobiliser either. 

I'd also replace the corrola fuel pump with a good aftermarket proformance pump. 

Also you will want the 295cc light gray denso injectors off the 4efte good for around 190hp, can be pushed to around 230hp but not recommended. 

And either a 4efte 212mm clutch that fits the 4efte flywheel or the uprated aftermarket 200mm 4efe corrola clutch kit that fits the factory 4efe flywheel. You will struggle to get more than 130hp on the standard 4efe clutch. The 212mm factory clutch normally see around 190hp before slipping. 

What are you getting with the 4efte engine in the way of bolt on components?

The power steering pump will also require a modification/extra bracket making in order to fit a modified 4efte engine to steering pump lower mount. It will be easier to do this then fit the ep82/ep91 power steering pump to the corrola (different piping)

Hi Sam. I was reading your early posts. How will the Piggyback connect to the 4efte ECU? Can you send me or post the wiring diagram you told me about?.Can you give me more details about the Corolla 4efe steering pump modification for the 4efte engine conversion? 

i’m putting together the basic list with the information you gave me these last weeks to see total prices and proceed with the purchase of the  4efte engine. Thank you. 

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Yeh mate I'll put together a full list. I think I know what your after. 

The piggy back ECU will wirer in straight to your original 4efe ECU. This is the best option using your better Toyota 4efe control unit on your E11. 

The only thing that you will need to swap over is the E11 4efe oil pump, this houses the crank position sensor. 

Edited by Sam44
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On 11/12/2020 at 9:40 AM, Sam44 said:

The piggy back ECU will wirer in straight to your original 4efe ECU.

I thought we were speaking about the 4efe to 4EFTE swap. I thought that the piggyback should connect to the 4EFTE ECU.

Edited by Frankieflowers
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On 11/12/2020 at 6:53 PM, Sam44 said:

You do not need the 4efte engine loom or ecu.

You mean that I could buy the 4EFTE engine without gearbox and without ECU and loom? Just manifold, intercooler and turbo. Correct? How do you see the swap done without the original loon? I would have to use the 4EFE Corolla E11 loom? You told me there are more sensors on the 4EFTE engine. How am I gonna manage that? Let me know when you have time. Thanks

Edited by Frankieflowers
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@Sam44 Tje Corolla 4efe gearbox is a C56. Correct? It will bolt in easily to the 4efte ep91?

What modification is required to

Adapt the 4efe front mount  to fit the 4efte front engine in the E11 Corolla?

adapt the Corolla E11 steering pump to work with the 4efte?

adapt the Corolla 4efe air box sensor to the Corolla Inlet adapted to the 4efte turbo?

What about the cat 02 sensor? Is it included with the 4efte?

Does the map sensor come with the 4efte engine or should I buy it separately. ECU, loom and wiring to the fuse original box box are included.

thank you

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On 11/12/2020 at 6:53 PM, Sam44 said:

I'll do a full write up soon. Times limited just at the min with my work just at present be patient and I'll get it up. 

You do not need the 4efte engine loom or ecu.

You mean that I could keep the 4EFE loom and ECU? I thought that when you swap with the 4EFTE you need its own ECU and loom. Let me know what you mean. I am referring to your first post with the swap details you gave me. Very thankful. 
 

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On 11/10/2020 at 9:33 AM, Claymore said:

I would keep the 4efe gearbox that you have in the corolla. It should hold the power you want.

As far as I know the corolla manifold will fit to the 4efte head.

But be careful as there are 2 different heads. 

One type of 4efte head has an extra water outlet that is blocked by the 4efte inlet manifold. The other type of head has no water outlet.

Water outlet type:

s-l1600.jpg

Water outlet not covered by manifold.

20150925_173006_zps99nndplp.jpg

You would have to weld some material to the inlet manifold flange to cover the hole IF you have the 4efte head with the water outlet.

Apparently late ep91 4EFTE engines don’t have the water outlet on the head.

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17 minutes ago, Sam44 said:

Yep keep the 4efe loom and ECU. You just need the piggy recommended. And the 4efte engine complete. 

This way it will be much easier but I will have to replace every connection from one engine to the other. What about the extra wires and sensors that come with the 4EFTE? Do you have a short list for safety swap? Thanks

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