Callums CD

[RoyalDutchie]

Sorry mate, meant the c160 and c161/2 gearboxes. Got them mixed up with others. Indeed the c163(c161/2 I meant) is the g6 gearbox, pretty hard to come by these days in the Netherlands.

[Sam44]

It's thec160, c161 in the 4efe G6 and 162 in the g6r. Sorry just read the last message. 

You can still get these gearboxes form Toyota I'm getting a new 1 next year. There are also a few reconditioned units on the internet. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Sam44

[CallumWellens33]

Thankyou for the advice lads, maybe you selling me your modded box is something we could talk about when the time comes Sam? 

[CallumWellens33]

Would also like to thank@BMX-RIG for selling me a great priced glanza cam. Wouldn't hesitate to use again in the future.

 

It's installed and honestly makes a night and day differnece. Sam is a legend for putting me onto it, so thanks again Sam. If anyone N/A wants a great bang for bucks change, I'd recommend this.

 

Glanza inlet cam, measures 41.5mm. Picks up massively at 4k and honestly feels like it doesn't want to stop come 6.5k. Cannot recommend enough!!

[Claymore]

21 hours ago, CallumWellens33 said:

Would also like to thank@BMX-RIG for selling me a great priced glanza cam. Wouldn't hesitate to use again in the future.

 

It's installed and honestly makes a night and day differnece. Sam is a legend for putting me onto it, so thanks again Sam. If anyone N/A wants a great bang for bucks change, I'd recommend this.

 

Glanza inlet cam, measures 41.5mm. Picks up massively at 4k and honestly feels like it doesn't want to stop come 6.5k. Cannot recommend enough!!

Don't suppose you measured the base circle of the cam lobes? Trying to get confirmation it's 34mm for another thread.

Did you need many new shims or were you able to swap about the ones you had to get the clearances correct?

The only mod currently on mine is the rolla manifold and it improved low down torque, also has better pickup at the top end to limiter (no rev counter!) but it also feels like it has a rich/flat spot in the mid range that makes top end feel more pronounced. Need to check what cam mine has in it.

Any pics of the install?

Edited December 22, 2021 by Claymore

[CallumWellens33]

On 12/22/2021 at 9:59 AM, Claymore said:

Don't suppose you measured the base circle of the cam lobes? Trying to get confirmation it's 34mm for another thread.

Did you need many new shims or were you able to swap about the ones you had to get the clearances correct?

The only mod currently on mine is the rolla manifold and it improved low down torque, also has better pickup at the top end to limiter (no rev counter!) but it also feels like it has a rich/flat spot in the mid range that makes top end feel more pronounced. Need to check what cam mine has in it.

Any pics of the install?

Unfortunately I didn't mesure it mate. I'm going to do rocker seals soon so I could take it back out to measure no bother. 

 

As for clearances, I knew it was a thing, but installed it on my own. It was only when I asked my boss that I realised I needed to do something about it. So when the rocker gasket kit arrives, he's going to help me have a mess. As I'm sure you can understand, being an apprentice in the modern automotive industry, everything is 90% electrical so it takes someone like my boss to set me straight. Its all about learning I suppose. He also told me when fitting a second hand cam its good to use the caps the cam had before hand. As I didn't have these there's nothing I can do about it now. For anyone's benefits, the cam cap setting is 13nm.

 

As for the manifold, it 100% made a noticeable difference at around 3k for me. It seemed to pick up sharper. I'd say it's worth it for shear driveablity alone 

Edited December 23, 2021 by CallumWellens33

[Claymore]

14 hours ago, CallumWellens33 said:

Unfortunately I didn't mesure it mate. I'm going to do rocker seals soon so I could take it back out to measure no bother. 

 

As for clearances, I knew it was a thing, but installed it on my own. It was only when I asked my boss that I realised I needed to do something about it. So when the rocker gasket kit arrives, he's going to help me have a mess. As I'm sure you can understand, being an apprentice in the modern automotive industry, everything is 90% electrical so it takes someone like my boss to set me straight. Its all about learning I suppose. He also told me when fitting a second hand cam its good to use the caps the cam had before hand. As I didn't have these there's nothing I can do about it now. For anyone's benefits, the cam cap setting is 13nm.

 

As for the manifold, it 100% made a noticeable difference at around 3k for me. It seemed to pick up sharper. I'd say it's worth it for shear driveablity alone 

Every day's a school day mate, we never stop learning.

Don't forget the forum is here to help if we know what your up to!  

[Sam44]

Yeh it's such a great upgrade for the UK ep. I've been banging on about it for ages it seems now. I even changed wikki on the 4e engine specs to reflect the Cam and spring differences. Enjoy. You are one of the first. 

[CallumWellens33]

Long spell with no progress and waiting for parts ect, but finally made abit more headway yesterday. Front upper cusco strutbrace on off of Chris bakers old car, not sure if he's on here as I bought it off Facebook so shoutout to Chris if he is on here. 

Spare head bought off Reece Cummings in Bolton. Local lad who's turboed his on a budget, around £400 and its exactly the same colour as mine! My stem seals have gone hard so I'm going to rebuild this head and throw it on at sometime in the near future. 

I've also got hold of a glanza rear spoiler. Unsure what to do with it as of yet. May have made a deal on some tubular corrola inlet manifolds and yellow injectors, great upgrades for an na but I will advertise them correctly once the deal is done and they're in hand. 

Hope everyone's doing okay! 

Edited January 16, 2022 by CallumWellens33

[Sam44]

Looking good. Yours is coming along nicely. 

[CallumWellens33]

17 minutes ago, Sam44 said:

Looking good. Yours is coming along nicely. 

All with your help mate all with your help!

Also, have you seen my WhatsApp message mate? All good news👌

[Sam44]

Yeh got it. I'm coming up to the north west very soon, it will be good to get back on the starlet and get some other things sorted. 

[CallumWellens33]

4 minutes ago, Sam44 said:

Yeh got it. I'm coming up to the north west very soon, it will be good to get back on the starlet and get some other things sorted. 

Well like I say mate. Be great to finally meet and have a chat. I can be ready whenever you are but there's no rush👌, they're dry and cozy here😂

[Claymore]

4 hours ago, CallumWellens33 said:

........

I've also got hold of a glanza rear spoiler. Unsure what to do with it as of yet. May have made a deal on some tubular corrola inlet manifolds and yellow injectors, great upgrades for an na but I will advertise them correctly once the deal is done and they're in hand. 

Hope everyone's doing okay! 

Cusco brace looks great Callum.

Can I ask what the yellow injectors do for an n/a? What size are they?

[CallumWellens33]

36 minutes ago, Claymore said:

Cusco brace looks great Callum.

Can I ask what the yellow injectors do for an n/a? What size are they?

Cheers mate! 

The standard green are 195cc. The yellow are 210cc. The pink 7afe are 230cc. The fte greys are 295cc. 

If you end up throwing proper money at an NA, your soon going to need some more fuel. They're cheap and available in most scrapyards so it's an easy drop in. I look at it as it's better to have than need if you get me. To use them properly, you would need a rolling road session I suppose. 

All the flow rates above are from Sam, I can't take any credit for the hours of thorough research that man does! 

[Claymore]

5 minutes ago, CallumWellens33 said:

Cheers mate! 

The standard green are 195cc. The yellow are 210cc. The pink 7afe are 230cc. The fte greys are 295cc. 

If you end up throwing proper money at an NA, your soon going to need some more fuel. They're cheap and available in most scrapyards so it's an easy drop in. I look at it as it's better to have than need if you get me. To use them properly, you would need a rolling road session I suppose. 

All the flow rates above are from Sam, I can't take any credit for the hours of thorough research that man does! 

If we're talking stock engine / with corolla manifold I wouldn't bother increasing injector size (the 195cc are plenty big enough), if you're talking about adding the same size injector with the same resistance but a better pintle design / spray pattern than denso I could see that working.

The problem with just "dropping in" injectors is that the ECU doesn't know the size difference.

When running in closed loop the narrow band O2 sensor will adjust the fuel that is delivered with short term and long term trims (assuming it has the the range to do so) but in open loop (full throttle etc.) afaik the ECU will use a generic lookup table without referencing the O2 sensor and not know if it's rich or lean. If you add bigger injectors you will most likely run rich at WOT probably losing power.

You would need a wideband O2 sensor to read the rich/lean condition in open loop and at least an adjustable fuel pressure reg to compensate the fuelling (caveman style.) I would use a piggyback (det 3 is about £200) that way you can control the fuelling to a reasonable level.

If it's research on injectors you want there's tons of it out there:

https://www.toyotagtturbo.com/community/index.php?threads/interchangelable-injectors.58014/

 

[burty]

6 hours ago, CallumWellens33 said:

Long spell with no progress and waiting for parts ect, but finally made abit more headway yesterday. Front upper cusco strutbrace on off of Chris bakers old car, not sure if he's on here as I bought it off Facebook so shoutout to Chris if he is on here. 

Spare head bought off Reece Cummings in Bolton. Local lad who's turboed his on a budget, around £400 and its exactly the same colour as mine! My stem seals have gone hard so I'm going to rebuild this head and throw it on at sometime in the near future. 

I've also got hold of a glanza rear spoiler. Unsure what to do with it as of yet. May have made a deal on some tubular corrola inlet manifolds and yellow injectors, great upgrades for an na but I will advertise them correctly once the deal is done and they're in hand. 

Hope everyone's doing okay! 

Great progress really need to update mine as it's moved along  since last update 

[Sam44]

I've just dropped in the 230cc pink injectors in my 5efe and adjusted my fuel pressure to 2.8bar a drop of .2bar on the standard reg and Waw what a transformation to power it had. I'll get mine on the Dyno soon. It's best to talk from experience. I find.

From a plug read going any lower on the fuel pressure causes the plugs to foul with what is known as cerment boil ( it's like a white brown crust like cerment) this is due to the fuel not atomising properly (boiling off the plug) if I go any higher the plugs go very clean and white ash is seen on the outer edge the coolest part of the plug this tells me that the cylinder temps are to high common cause is the exhaust temperature increase. At the min my plugs are a nice brown nearly clean colour, and black soot on the outer edge (the coolest part of the plug).

Bkr5eix plugs great plugs for the na engines. 

I'm getting it dynoed soon. What ever increase in hp it gets it would have not have been possible on the green injectors, See what we get.

I will admit here that on cold start conditions it does run slightly rich causing a bit of a black soot cloud out of the exhaust when you first drop that pedal. Clearing it throat as I call it. Then it's fine.

The light drown are very similar and the best 210cc found in the gen1 4efe in the corrola ae101. 

I know of 1 lad that ran these with the gen1 inlet 4efte throttle (switch type) and 4-2-1 exhaust off the ae101. He did not know of the cam difference, so he was on the ep91 cam he made 91hp. Not sure on his torque out put. My guess is quite alot comparing with other on the gen1 inlet that made around 85+hp there torque out is higher than these on the rolla inlet. 

If you look on the leader board I know Ryan Lang run the gen1 inlet look at his torque output in nm compared to other. From this you can spot the gen1 inlet builds. 

I do hate quoting people on there own advice given to others. 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Sam44

[CallumWellens33]

I'll be the first person to admit i don't know enough about the tuning side to talk about it. What I'm saying is I know they're a higher output option and I can possible get hold of them if people have made they're own decision on needing them. 

I will be running caveman style for now until my set up is complete and reliable then go for det 3.  May seem kike the long way round but I trust Sam's advice and with the car being a daily I would like to avoid long periods of downtime. 

[Claymore]

1 hour ago, Sam44 said:

I've just dropped in the 230cc pink injectors in my 5efe and adjusted my fuel pressure to 2.8bar a drop of .2bar on the standard reg and Waw what a transformation to power it had.

My point was that without adjusting the fuelling it would not run properly / optimally, glad your findings are the same.

I'll get mine on the Dyno soon. It's best to talk from experience. I find.

I've lost count of the times you've said this and I hope this time you will. 🤞

 

I'm getting it dynoed soon. What ever increase in hp it gets it would have not have been possible on the green injectors, See what we get.

I've checked some online calculators and 195cc injectors should support 120bhp. Would be nice to have had dyno results before and after but dyno time is expensive.

I will admit here that on cold start conditions it does run slightly rich causing a bit of a black soot cloud out of the exhaust when you first drop that pedal. Clearing it throat as I call it. Then it's fine.

Not ideal, would prefer to log WB02 data than read plugs but hey, not my car.

If you look on the leader board I know Ryan Lang run the gen1 inlet look at his torque output in nm compared to other. From this you can spot the gen1 inlet builds. 

We all know that different dyno results don't add up. The dyno in question could read higher or lower than others. Unless all results are from the same dyno / operator / weather conditions etc. they aren't totally comparable. I had my previous car dynod on three seperate dyno's with no difference in mods and all three results were different! There are plenty of other fe builds on the board that are around the similar power and torque figures.

 

Sorry Callum.

[Claymore]

7 minutes ago, CallumWellens33 said:

I'll be the first person to admit i don't know enough about the tuning side to talk about it. What I'm saying is I know they're a higher output option and I can possible get hold of them if people have made they're own decision on needing them. 

I will be running caveman style for now until my set up is complete and reliable then go for det 3.  May seem kike the long way round but I trust Sam's advice and with the car being a daily I would like to avoid long periods of downtime. 

No worries, just trying to help. I love your enthusiasm and your willingness to help the Starlet community.

There's plenty of topics relating to n/a tuning on this forum. Might be worth a read mate. Sorry for the tangent.

[CallumWellens33]

20 minutes ago, Claymore said:

No worries, just trying to help. I love your enthusiasm and your willingness to help the Starlet community.

There's plenty of topics relating to n/a tuning on this forum. Might be worth a read mate. Sorry for the tangent.

No it's all good mate all good. I understand that more fuel is useless without more air. My point was they maybe useful for people trying to cheap route turbo? 

[CallumWellens33]

Also when it comes to spray pattern, better is more spread out across the cylinder to avoid heat spots? I'm I along the right lines there mate. This is the stuff we don't do at college. This is all that I've read off the Web but the Web can sometimes be wrong hahah😂

[Claymore]

13 minutes ago, CallumWellens33 said:

No it's all good mate all good. I understand that more fuel is useless without more air. My point was they maybe useful for people trying to cheap route turbo? 

Unfortunately I don't think 210cc will be big enough for turbo applications unless you're running low power.

There are many online fuel injector size calculators that will help choose the correct flow rate and also calculate the increase / decrease vs the fuel pressure also.

11 minutes ago, CallumWellens33 said:

Also when it comes to spray pattern, better is more spread out across the cylinder to avoid heat spots? I'm I along the right lines there mate. This is the stuff we don't do at college. This is all that I've read off the Web but the Web can sometimes be wrong hahah😂

Not sure if you're talking about direct injection when it comes to spraying on cylinders. I was referring to port / manifold injectors and their nozzles.

The changes in design over the years from single spray to Bosch disc type with 4 small ports (mx5 etc)

https://www.witchhunter.com/spraypattern1.php

[CallumWellens33]

12 minutes ago, Claymore said:

Unfortunately I don't think 210cc will be big enough for turbo applications unless you're running low power.

There are many online fuel injector size calculators that will help choose the correct flow rate and also calculate the increase / decrease vs the fuel pressure also.

Not sure if you're talking about direct injection when it comes to spraying on cylinders. I was referring to port / manifold injectors and their nozzles.

The changes in design over the years from single spray to Bosch disc type with 4 small ports (mx5 etc)

https://www.witchhunter.com/spraypattern1.php

I honestly just thought that atomisation was atomisation no matter which setup you were using to get the fuel in. The better the spread the more "mixed" the mixture is and this allows for a more uniform burn across the cylinder. I'll have a read on the link tonight. 

 

Just to clear up, nothing was taken offensively mate. I'll never learn if people don't correct my misconceptions. Thankyou for helping to pass your knowledge on.