sorry for the late reply, cheers for posting back on my thread. have been looking for a tongs but really hard to get and even if i can find one they have all shit the bed. didnt go for the ebay speedvision as i found out they were fakes througbt reviews, got it direct from speed vision. dont really want to go tdo4 yet, dont wana start changing mani thats a project for another time. and stu, thats was some write up, ill have to pm you haha cheers