racing cams

[bigash86]

Has anyone have pipercross racing cams on there engine if so how good are they?

[AdamB]

I hate regrinds, they are a ballache to fit, and unless your pushing 340+bhp they won't really be needed.

[bigash86]

I want 280bhp at the wheels fast road track car mate on a tdo5 or tdo4 with fast spool what engine mods would you suggest ive seen a few builds and graphs and it seems all the fast spooling engines have racing cams and are 5e forged

[AdamB]

Its the 5E that makes it with faster spool. Most people don't tend to understand camshaft specifications and choose the wrong ones.

It's come up quite a lot recently actually

http://www.ukstarletowners.com/topic/69180-im-after-some-good-cams/

You on a 4E or 5E?

[bigash86]

Am building a 5e ive been contemplating between the 2 for a while but decided to build 5e or buy a good spec one if it comes up so if I build one just wondering what engine spec people would suggest for what I wanted (stated previoulsy above)

[AdamB]

Depends how deep your pockets are really lol.

Personal preference but if I was building an out and out track car it would most likely be a 4E with high compression.

Since your building a 5E here's what I would do :

Wiseco/CP Pistons

Pauter/Carillo rods

ACL Bearings

4AGE headstuds

4AGE crank studs

Baffled sump

Mild port on the head

Oversize exhaust valves

Bronze valve guides

Solid buckets

Viton valve stem seals

Uprated valve springs

Titanium retainers

Probably talking around £2500 just for parts alone on the engine.

I would choose the best standalone ecu I could afford, simply because of the safety features they offer and the greater control. I would be looking at the likes of a Motec, Link, Haltech.

Turbo wise I would probably run a td05 because its cheap, easy to replace. Although again if you could afford it I would go for a Garrett GT2860RS.

Anymore questions, fire away

[bigash86]

What would that be like to drive as a daily driver lol and I would use it more for fast road then track would it still be the same spec finally why would you opt gor 4e high compression over 5e would it not give as faster spool then a 5e and how would you achieve the high compression

[webby]

Listen to Adam b mate he knows his stuff

[bigash86]

I can tell mate just wondering how it would be achieved what I would need for my build ect

[AdamB]

Will be fine to drive as a daily because the 5E gives more torque so will still be smooth, and obviously the turbo will spool faster than the equivalent 4E.

If its just an occasional track toy then I wouldn't bother with half of it tbh, most of it is just me being anal and having the best parts lol.

Reason I would choose a 4E over a 5E is because of its bore to stroke ratio, its a lot squarer than a 5E, infact a 4E's bore to stroke ratio is 0.96, and a 5E is 0.85. It's basically the engines ability to rev which is cruical in a track car. That said 5E's aren't lazy and even most run at 8000rpm when coupled with the right turbo.

How you achieve high compression is down to the engine builder as most have their own ways of doing it. Each have their own tricks

[bigash86]

Would you still opt for the above spec for a fast road occasional track car on a 4e then? On a tdo4/tdo5 280bhp at the wheels if not can you give me another spec for what I need mate you seemnto be a starlet guru lol

[AdamB]

It all depends on your budget and if you want to be anal and get the best parts you can really.

I mean you can use Wiseco pistons and Scat/Pec rods, these rods are cheaper than the likes of Carillo and Pauter at roughly £650 and £550 respectively, but they have been used by many and are proven, however the Carillo name speaks for itself.

If on a budget then I would use this spec :

Wiseco pistons

Scat/Pec rods

0.6mm headgasket

ACL bearings

ARP headbolts

ARP crank bolts

Mild port on the head

Uprated valve springs

Viton valve stem seals

Obviously you'll still need all supporting mods like fuel system, good ignition system, intercooler etc.

Engine management wise I would still choose the best you can afford, but the likes of Emanage, DTA, Omex are cheaper options.

Turbo I would choose a td04, and if you get bored you can always swap for a td05. Jay would be a good person to get more info on regarding the td05 as he's running one on his forged 4E and gets full boost 1.7 bar at like 4500rpm which is pretty immense.

Edited August 24, 2013 by AdamB

[bigash86]

Cheers mate some really good info there would you suggest racing cams for more agreesive spool and revs?

[AdamB]

Depends on the turbo you use really. If you use a td04 then I wouldn't worry about trying to get it to spool up faster, but if you want a bit more top end power then possibly something around the 255-264 degrees and 8.2mm lift.

If you use the td05 you'll have no problem with making the power, but you'll have a little more lag, and you should go the opposite way on the cams, somewhere around 215-220 degree duration and 8.2mm lift will work well.

That's the basic cam specs, but there is more to it. I would also advise to stay away from reground cams, like the pipercross, cruise etc as getting the correct valve clearences can be a right pain in the nutsack.

If you can afford it, I would get some oversize exhaust valves, the largest possible that will fit in the head! This will help with spool up and you'll gain a fair bit of power as well and you can reduce how wild you go with your cams

Edited August 24, 2013 by AdamB

[bigash86]

You know anywhere I can purchase cams from? Should I need them I went from goibg to build/buy 4e to being adamant for a 5e now am going back to a 4e lol great help though adam

[AdamB]

Ivan Tighe will be the best place to get cams from Pretty good prices as well!

Hahaha you choose whatever engine you want mate, I would say if you can get hold of a 5E then do it, but I wouldn't say put your life on hold until you get one.

[bigash86]

Theres a guy breaking his paseo near me but I thought I would buy an already biult 5e or 4e so I have both options available to me which makes the decision even harder for me lol the other problem I have is am in Warwickshire and its hard to find s good machine shop to do the work without being ripped off and I dont want to travel miles to get it done dont know if you know anyone my way?

[jayc-glanza17]

thanks for mention adam..

its now 4657rpm to 1.5bar on a td05 dude.lol.. inlet made it like 150rpm later but a lot more tourque, so smoother delivery..

im now making 318bhp which is about 294 at the wheels on a td05..

im on stock head, only small porting, but I do run slightly lower then stock compression ratio..

for a track car mate, stock compression is good goal maybe a little higher like 8.5 to 1..

[bigash86]

They are impressive figures mate expecially on stock head am guessing I should over look 3angle valve jobs ect

[AdamB]

Depends what kinda price he's after for the 5E really mate, I paid quite a bit for mine, and I've seen them up for around the £200-300 mark. Don't know any machine shops round that way sorry dude.

Jay makes a good point with the CR, if your going for a 4E I would deffo look to run anywhere between 8.2-8.5:1.

Head work depends on your budget, I would always recommend a 3 angle valve cuts on the seats as you can gain quite a bit of flow in and out of the seat just by this. The head is where power is won or lost really, but stock heads do flow rather well.

[jayc-glanza17]

personally if its a track/show car you only go to a few meets in on the road, then look into headwork a lot.

like adam says 3 angle valve job is a good thing to have, gains a increase in power for sure, and suits track cars very well..

if its more a road car for shows and meets then a stock head will suffice, and you keep good torque as well..

over the winter I will be hopefully, making a full head for mine, with 3 angle valve job and some billet cams..