Ricky@Race-Tech

I'll do a group buy onACT if people are interested. If not we keep Competition clutch in stock.

tbh id quite like to see how it compares to mine

but as there is only one other person on this forum who has seen my car go, it wouldnt really help as a comparrison haha

need some speedo videos!

or proper comparison videos with others cars i.e both in same gear same speed.both ready

I can overlay a dyno graph of any starlet onto it so you could see the comparison.

tbh id quite like to see how it compares to mine

but as there is only one other person on this forum who has seen my car go, it wouldnt really help as a comparrison haha

Ah, do you have an EP3 or EK9? I'll have plenty of graphs of those I could overlay from stock to 485hp. N/a, S/c or Turbo.

LOL, why do you do think there is any hating going on? it was just a minor observation so I thought I would ask the question!!

looks as though you get the full 1.8 bar at 4500rpm and it tales off after 5700 so you get 1200rpm of 1.8 bar of boost?????

Am I wrong in saying this and no one else can see it???

Dont get me wrong, both you and Ricky have done an awesome job in building this monster and there isnt another starlet I know of in England like it so surely there is room for a little criticism

Your criticising things what either don't matter or don't understand. If I made the car do 2 bar at 7000rpm's it wouldn't make a single HP more. The head/cam intake are absolutely maxed. Look at where the car makes peak power. You will have the exact same problem in a few weeks i'm sure. Sock's has a ported head also.

A few tweeks on the avcr should help there imo very finicky controllers at the best of times. It does take a while of adjusting on them to get them right. I'm at mine the last week or so and still a bit to go but getting better every time hard to get a good stretch to be at them too lol probably better to have a mate driving to be on the safe side. This might help http://www.toyotagtt...ll=1#post368152

The AVCR is the best boost controller IMO, the point is I didn't want to make any more boost higher in the RPM's it didn't result in any more power. It was setup on the dyno.

Sounds awesome, all be it laggy though, can't hear the screamer till around 5k though....

It actually spools really well, it makes more power than a standard starlet (at peak power) at 3800rpm's. Also remember a bigger turbo at a lower level of boost will still flow more air. I.e. This turbo at 0.6-0.7 bar will make more power than a TD04 at 1 bar.

Video of spool:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA2wH4XNtmo

The PFC isn't a great ECU by modern standards to be honest. It lacks features and isn't the most flexible. We already found limits on Sock's car using a power FC.

The problem with most plug and play standalones is they are connected to a 20 year old loom and sensors.

We are currently working on a system what will complete remove the standard wiring loom sensors and obviously ECU. This will obviously cost more than most systems out there, but will allow for a much greater control and you can remove unsightly things like the distributer etc.

This car is in need of a few tweaks to get some more power, but I'm sure it'll be enjoyed for the time being.

5E, people seem to think the 5E can't rev, Spuddy has proven it can at 9300rpm. The only reason is doesn't like to rev in stock form is because the bottom end is heavier than a 4E.

More torque, more power, better drive, better spool times.

The weight of the bottom end wouldn't matter to the RPM's. So long as the bottom end is balanced. The weight of the reciprocal parts would matter, but more/equally as important is the rod to stroke ratio for various reasons. What actually matters more is having the correct cam's for the application. I'll not go into too much detail here.

Im sure Matt (WhiteGV) wont mind me saying this..

Matts - 335bhp on 5E

Mine - 272bhp on 4E

Which was quicker? Mine.

That was a 3rd gear pull, up to 5th gear about 150mph..

On a private road

I heard the 5E's don't like to rev as much

Plus that Matt's was laggy as hell, the inlet on it made it laggy i remember seeing a thread on tgtt before he sold it i remember him mentioning he couldnt shake a forged TD04 4E

The intake didn't make it laggy at all, the shocking turbo/kit did along with a poorly spec'd engine. (in terms of head/cam choice). Infact I have the car in at the moment to have one of our GT28 kits fitted, so we'll see the HUGE difference in the midrange. A correctly spec'd intake will not lose any spool. Infact it should improve it along with top end power.

We are working on a new intake manifold at the moment, it will be even better than the others. However the cost might scare some people off so we're also keeping the tried and tested intakes.

I'm not surprised by the fact a car with less peak power beat it as there wasn't much area under the curve on his graph.

With this new kit on there the powerband will be much different/better.

I don't have too much time so i'll keep this brief.

The 4e 5e argument will go on further. As it does with many cars. I.e. Evo's/Civic's etc where you can get the same head but different capacity.

Generally speaking and at lower power levels the rule is as you'd think. Bigger is better. However at higher power levels the smaller engine is generally my preference. I.e. In a drag scenario.

We have them.

If you have a DV then all the boost pressure is lost, intercooler/boost pipes etc all need to be refilled.

Ontop of this, a "compressor" has less resistance when its NOT moving air. I.e. If the DV is open and its moving air it slows quicker.

If you get a normal vacuum cleaner and block the air intake you'll here the speed of the motor increase. (or computer fan etc)

Obviously when the air is coming out the opposite way there is slightly more resistance but on datalogs i've seen the boost to be restored quicker without using a DV. Also 90% of DV's we test leak.

Lol this is now turned into a damage turbo thread.

The point is running without a dump valve will slow the turbin down so will give you a miller second of lag lol and at the end of the day this thread is about trying to make a td04 spool quicker and a miller second of lag is just to much for my likeing Every miller second counts

None of the above would make any difference at all to spool of the turbo. Thats just turbo recovery time which would be much higher in the rpm's anyway.

Water injection won't decrease lag/spool time, it will just improve the efficiency of the turbo by reducing the air temperature.

Plus the water injection would have to be added before the compressor.

If you have the money, a billet comp wheel as its lighter. Or nitrous Or a bigger engine.

Billet wheels are slightly more efficient and lighter, however the exhaust wheel is FAR heavier than the compressor wheel anyway so the biggest weight savings are to be had here.

Back on topic, when are you seeing full boost? What RPM's?

Anyway I better get back to work

Ive had my turbo, manifold, downpipe and screamer ceramic coated will improve spool loads on my td04l

link for more info-

http://www.zircotec....rbochargers/138

While you might see the smallest of increases in EGT this wouldn't make the turbo spool a lot faster.

If you can increase the gas/volume/speed then you will see quicker spool, but your not going to see more than a few RPM gained.

More boost more flutter. its a bigger turbo so .6 bar is like blowing down a cave, its not realy doing much to push the turbo. also flutter is gay!! It kills turbos fact! Its called compressor surge and its air backing up against the turbo and even more comicaly makes the car more laggy!!

True compressor surge is when the turbo is being driven. (by the exhaust wheel) and the engine cannot consume the air. When you lift off the turbo isn't been driven. So is slowed down relatively slowly. I've never seen a turbo damaged by not running a dump valve.

Lol futter isnt good full stop. if it was ok why would manufacturers waste mony on producing recirc valves?? Next you will be saying anti lag isnt bad for turbos either.

Manfacturers run recirc valves to make the turbo's as quiet as possible. If you don't run one, they chatter, and its not to everybodies taste.

We would need fairly accurate dimensions in order to make something up.

Matt's car has a huge amount of head work done so its hard to compare. But yes, head work is worth every penny providing its done correctly. The stock starlets heads aren't great in stock form. In certain area's there is a lot to be gained. In other area's not so much.

Matt's (socks) Glanza seams to be coping ok on stock cams ect i think an inlet and standalone and he'll be hitting near the 400bhp figher but he's saved 1k not getting any head work done...If Mat wanted to rev to 9000rpm then i can see the point of the cams

Looks great, I'm not a fan of bigger wheels anyway.

Im not saying there is not a power gain, im saying the air speed will be slowed down..

Quick scenrio

blow through your lips if you were whistling, and have your hand 6" away

then try it with your mouth open and see the diffirence.

Simple stuff this.

Regardless of N/A vs F/I, same principle applies.

If adding a bigger throttle body was as easy, everybody would be running 100mm plus would they not ;) Ever thought why they dont...

Indeed, the only reason is for control. A 100mm throttle body would give 100% power at 20% throttle on a stock starlet.

Something else to notice doing that experiment, notice the temperature change of the air also.

The main increase in air speed would be from the intake runners, my 4age with stock 45mm itbs had an 80mm hole on the intake plenum standard.

The bigger the tb the easier it is to fill the plenum chamber meaning less vaccum therefor easier for it to rev up i.e more power but prob less torque.

No it wont.

The air speed needs to be kept up not slowed down. ;)

Just have a little think about it.

But aftermarket manifolds are only really needed when the stock item become restrivctive, which is out of most peoples reach power wise.

Very true, smaller throttle body, higher back pressure less efficiency highe gas speed. Gas speed at the throttle body has no advantages.

Big TB don't give response in general....on the contrast, it makes it more on-off state, as with small increases in the plate angle the opening is becoming bigger.

Unless you run a proper managment, big changes in TB size are not good for drivability.

Again correct, a bigger throttle body gives the appearance of better throttle response when infact it is just flowing more air at lower throttle positions.

In what way do you mean it will give better response? How are you measureing the response because by response it can mean a lot of things, but from what your saying it sounds like race tech may have measured this. Hence me wondering how it's been measured. Which I'm sure you'll agree, is a valid questions to your statement

Very hard to measure, transient responce should infact be worse due to the larger plenum volume. However it is virtually none exsistent, ours takes 0.02 seconds longer than stock to fill at approx 3000rpm's. Compare this to the average boost pipe which is 0.1 seconds.

The main increase in air speed would be from the intake runners, my 4age with stock 45mm itbs had an 80mm hole on the intake plenum standard.

The bigger the tb the easier it is to fill the plenum chamber meaning less vaccum therefor easier for it to rev up i.e more power but prob less torque.

This is however just my thinking not proof in any way ;)

This is however just my thinking not proof in any way ;)

Pretty much correct, your always making a compromise to some extent. We offer completely custom intakes, but most are made for the over 300hp mark which is where your going to get the gains anyway. There shouldn't be any loss of spool time, and on a td04 setup or bigger you should gain spool to top end. You will lose torque off boost and at very low RPM's.

Are you looking for Vband or 2 bolt? We have Turbosmart and Tial instock. PM me for pricing.

Tbh looking at what youve got space wise. the under slam panel rad looks like the best option and will look cool at the same time.

Altho a slightly angled turbo wud work on a 4e I guess that lil extra height of the 5e has kinda shot u in the foot so to speak regarding spacing between turbo n slam panel.

It would mean different runners but you could do it.

I'd get intouch with Wepr, It looks like they have made an error, which does happen at times. I'm sure they will sort you out if you return it.

We've done it on many cars, most just leave them to be honest. All components are stainless steel.

Cheers Guys

I was £288 witch i thought was pretty good, he took about 3 hours on mine.

Will do but ive only got wheel horse power, the leader board only uses flywheel power, he said it was about 370 at the flywheel but i have my douts lol

Did he do a coastdown run? What dyno is it? Although a little high, depending how it was strapped, what wheels/tyres are on it etc it might not be that far out.

can you not get him to repair it? surely it comes with some kind of warranty?

Our manifolds are indeed covered by warranty. But if you look at the horrible welding on there its actually being repaired by somebody else before. High EGT's will be the cause of the failure and the TD04 just isn't big enough to run that power reliably on track.

The above said, I offered Jamie a deal on one of our new manifolds.

Ah that's shit mate mine didn't even make it to japfest lol

After all that! What happened?

will be looking to get new injectors for my setup (which is being kept a secret at the moment ;) ) and was wondering wether 750cc's will be to much?

will be looking at something capeable of supporting 400hp and these seem to have an awesome flow patttern etc

You need 550cc injectors to support 400hp, so anything over that is ok. I'd recommend 650-750cc so your along the right lines, the ID's flow nicely, but I'm happy with some from another company.

Here's how we test to see which are best.

http://www.race-tech...up_image&pID=75