Spark plug reading

[RoyalDutchie]

After about 5 years I replaced the sparks plugs inside the engine. They looked good to me just a bit old, but just the be sure I'm making a post about them. The one on the right is closest to the dizzy.

[Sam44]

What kind of milage do they do a month. 

What's your setup dutchie. 

What's the NGK iridium number on the plug. If possible just from looking at the plugs I'd drop a heat range but if the car is run on idle alot it's just choke running (cold start as well as unloaded conditions). 

Hardly any wear on the electrodes.

looks like the right 1 is the hottest working to the left getting cooler which normally equates the right 1 being cylinder 1. This can normally be seen all over the plug but on these I'm looking at the earth electrode and the base outer ring (were the plug threads are this is the coolest part of the plug and should be clean from carbon but this area gives away cylinder temperature the most. The blacker it is the cooler the cylinder. Are you running the standard engine breather system this relates to the 2x different colours of the center plugs 2&3 more brown with alittle cement boil or crust this is either poor fuel atomisation or oil vapour. My gess is oil vapour, wear the standard engine breather fouls the 2x center cylinders. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Sam44

[RoyalDutchie]

In the 1.5 years I owned the car they have done about  388km each month.

Car is completely stock just ac delete and relocation of filter to the front of the bumper. Still need to install the fmic to drop inlet temps but still waiting on new stock for a short route.

They are Bkr7eix actually dropped a heat range to  bkr6e.

note:

Should really start a build blog soon, much progress in the last few days.

Edited August 21, 2020 by RoyalDutchie

[Sam44]

Above post updated my friend, edited.

Am I right in thinking these the 4efte come with a heat range 6 plug. I'd definitely give it a go, if you are on stock boost pressure you can try copper core plugs (cheaper) and recheck the plugs after 2weeks of running. The cooler plugs have a longer reach into the cylinder (closer to the piston crown) this helps improve flame propergation quite a bit on these. If you see better mpg and feel better power as well as we see better cylinder temps then at the present tune run a heat range 6 plug, and invest in a platinum tip 6 range plug.

I'd say these are the wrong plug for this state of tune. 

Also check your ignition timing using a strobe, and carry out a blink code readout. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Sam44

[RoyalDutchie]

Got copper ones now since they are more conductive and more resistant to deposits. Have been running a breather filter for the center vent and recently started running an catch can between pcv and inlet which I custom made with lost of material to condensate the oil inside the air. Have seen quite a few mistakes with this car from previous owners so it wouldn't surprise me.

Recently swapped my ecu and currently seeing 35.28 mpg instead of the previous 31.75 mpg. If mpg increases even more I would be pretty impressed.

Any alternative injectors with better  fuel atomisation   than stock without the risk of running to rich on stock boost?

The engine also uses minimal amounts of oil. Havent seen a drop in the 1.5 year I owned the car(changed the oil once. Oil should be changed soon but still no drop on the oil gauge).

 

Thx again Sam, Trying to gather as much knowledge as possible, but in practices things seem to be much harder to relate to the theory I have been reading about.

Edited August 21, 2020 by RoyalDutchie

[Sam44]

Not much wrong with the atomisation I'd say the boil off looks very low very clean. 

Boil off can be seen on the 2x center plugs on the earth electrode, dry & brown in colour tells me possibly oil vapour.

Now you have a catch can fitted see if this changes over 6 month of running if not possible valve stem seals. 

I'm stuck in between the 2xdifferent plugs at the minute. The platinum can be a problem with much higher cylinder temps also. 

With you being on stock boost on a cooler plug than standard factory it's looking good. pretty even cylinder temps tbf. I'd say you could drop a heat range for better proformance, as you would expect to see.

If you start to increase boost levels things will become clearer especially since you have started to read these plugs that are looking to be in a happy place. 

Most of the builds I'm seeing and having experience on are running either .9 to 1bar of boost common supporting mods. This starts to bring the engine out of its working parameters. 

This is the first very close to standard factory high low boost that I've seen the plugs on. 

If you get me. 

Believe in what you are seeing as you tune you will see things change quickly and now you have a base to work from. 

Do you know the factory plug number by any chance dutchie. 

My working outs I'd say it should be a heat range 6 but id be very interested in seeing. 

Every 1 I've see now around 8 motors are all running 7 and 8 heat ranges and all I'd say could run a 6 in some cylinders. 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Sam44

[RoyalDutchie]

The minimal wear on the electrodes is pretty amazing for 5 years, but the car only did about 20-30k km.

Tbf I think the civic half rad with 1.3 bar  pressure cap keept the temp/pressure at a fairly consistent rate. Fan doesn't kick in much only when stationary. 

In the 3.5 year I didn't own the car with these plugs it did run with a blitz ecu and maybe something else aswell.

Have kept it as is since I owned it as a first car to check the state of the car which actually seems to be pretty good. Dropped to heat range 6 copper plug today. Also running bp 98 octane which doesn't have any ethanol in it, may also have a contribution in the current health of the engine. Car also has low boost delete, so it runs on 0.6 bar consistently.

Since it is my daily right now I'm going to keep it a stock boost, but I'm starting with the first few mods to improve the quality of the engine. Like a new exhaust manifold to get a more even flow from the engine to exhaust. Probably the closed back water pump to reduce cavitation inside the engine block. And of course a good fmic to remove to top mount engine "heater".  Looking into a first gen impreza wrx sti v6 from Japan as a second car so I hope this one keeps preforming as it is.

Edited August 21, 2020 by RoyalDutchie

[Sam44]

Fantastic approach. 

Like you say very low wear (rounding of the electrodes) which can accelerate on the platinum plug because the spark normally contacts the same point on both surfaces. 

Measured and all makes sense. 

This turbo is here if you are interested I could get it sent to a turbo place near me at some point and checked over. 

I'm in no need of the money or rush to sell it. Would just like to see it go to a good home on a build like yours. This with cams would be something. 

Ill keep hold of it hoping 1day your interested.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Sam44

[RoyalDutchie]

Do love the glanza currently going to keep it for ever, but we have seen some change their mind after a long time owning one so we wil see what wil happen.

Just measured the spark plugs.

1-0.80mm

2-0.85mm

3-0.85mm

4-0.80mm

(Seems to me the oil deposits may be accelerating the wear of the electrodes)

You are tempting me, I'm actually interested in an alternative ct9 turbo was thinking about a k1-200v, but a tongs turbo may actually preform way beter(I'm still a student so it can take some time before I have the funds). If I get a hold of the 5efhe intake a turbo upgrade becomes required to be fair.  Currently I'm afraid of boost creep because of all the breathing mods. Still have a blitz (facelift) decat laying about and soon a full exhaust with greddy bm-ti muffler. I'm afraid an external boost wastegate is the only option soon, even though I have been contemplating about a new cast for the exhaust side with bigger wastegate(can't do this myself yet but time wil tell).

 

note:

Do hate that the msg system doesn't work here. Have send you a pm on tgtt.

Edited August 22, 2020 by RoyalDutchie

[Sam44]

I'll look now. 

And yeh take your time. what you have there is a fantastic base. 

Your approach is measured and targeted from what I can see. If you do it right you will save money with well placed items, and no real need to go forged motor, high boost levels. The smaller turbos gives great throttle control no need to be aggresive. If you can tailor your boost to come in just after curz rpm. Say around 3krpm this engine sees very good mpg closer to 40, due to the fact the map sensor does not see boost pressure in stop start traffic (at this point it's not needed). 

The standard GT and glanza gearbox are to me over geared. To say the strick speed limit in Japan and the high mph ability of these boxes makes no sense. They load up the engine restricting acceleration which has been suggested to me the reason for there use Toyota knew these cars had the ability to become death traps given the power to weight.

Boost creep kills engines!!!!. 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Sam44

[RoyalDutchie]

16 hours ago, Sam44 said:

Not much wrong with the atomisation I'd say the boil off looks very low very clean. 

Boil off can be seen on the 2x center plugs on the earth electrode, dry & brown in colour tells me possibly oil vapour.

Now you have a catch can fitted see if this changes over 6 month of running if not possible valve stem seals. 

I'm stuck in between the 2xdifferent plugs at the minute. The platinum can be a problem with much higher cylinder temps also. 

With you being on stock boost on a cooler plug than standard factory it's looking good. pretty even cylinder temps tbf. I'd say you could drop a heat range for better proformance, as you would expect to see.

If you start to increase boost levels things will become clearer especially since you have started to read these plugs that are looking to be in a happy place. 

Most of the builds I'm seeing and having experience on are running either .9 to 1bar of boost common supporting mods. This starts to bring the engine out of its working parameters. 

This is the first very close to standard factory high low boost that I've seen the plugs on. 

If you get me. 

Believe in what you are seeing as you tune you will see things change quickly and now you have a base to work from. 

Do you know the factory plug number by any chance dutchie. 

My working outs I'd say it should be a heat range 6 but id be very interested in seeing. 

Every 1 I've see now around 8 motors are all running 7 and 8 heat ranges and all I'd say could run a 6 in some cylinders. 

 

The factory plugs have oem number 90919-01178. These seem to be denso pk20r11's platinum plugs. On the denso scale they are heat range 20 with a spark gap of 1.1

Checking the table blow they seem to be equal to ngk heat range 6 even though  they have a gap of .3mm more.

 

Any gains with stock to 0.7 bar of boost on a tongs turbo? What is the going rate of speedvision cams?

Edited August 22, 2020 by RoyalDutchie

[Sam44]

Nice find yeh that sounds about right. 

A 1.1mm plug gap is on the high side for a older 4efte external coil which I'd hope is slightly higher kv output against the small 4efe integrated coil which I had problems with when applying boost to the engine I found a .8mm plug gap was much better. Lowest I'd go is .6mm.

From what I can see the tongs ct9 hyb turbo runs a Garrett T25 compressor wheel bigger. On the ct9 compressor housing coupled with the ct9a exhaust turbine and housing. I would expect it to flow more air at this pressure which i would guess at being comfortably with in its safe operating range. This tongs I have here has a billet aluminium wheel so not a standard tongs. 

The zisco ram's horn exhaust manifold : fairly narrow diameter runners promotes really good low rpm velocity helping the turbos spool up, but will have a negative affect on higher rpm high boost pressure power. that's only if you are aiming over 250hp.

Other items like cam profile and inlet design are also balanced to bring the desired tune.  

I'll look for some turbo pressure graphs now to get a fix on this. As well as some Dyno graphs relating to ct9 hybrid's. I'm sure there are lots. 

1 such build on here to watch is Brad's MK1 GT. He has a very well balanced tune using a ct9/td04 hyb on the 5ehfe cams and the acis manifold going on. This is 1 to watch. 

Ct9 hyb and tfo35 EPs are very capable setups.

Here are some very good figures with setups. Ct9 hyb 

http://austarletclub.com/index.php?/topic/12551-dyno-tune-sheet-of-ct9s/page-2

Look at the torque figures from this setup  something is going on with the cams here the torque builds later and stays up longer. Very impressive constant pull.

 

 

https://www.toyotagtturbo.com/community/index.php?threads/dyno-on-stock-ct9-now-tongs-hybrid-what-manifold.107024/

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Sam44