Power

[stixnolan]

I just bought a jap import 1.3 efi soleil, does anyone know their power output (bhp) as standard and any easy/cheap ways of increasing this? Thanks

[SiCaln]

the standard uk ones are 74bhp, i think the JDM versions are more around the 90bhp mark

[klyfax]

I just bought a jap import 1.3 efi soleil, does anyone know their power output (bhp) as standard

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its 88 bhp.

and any easy/cheap ways of increasing this? Thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, sell it and buy a standard turbo engine called 4e-fte (133 bhp). Otherwise mount turbo and every thing else from the turbo engine. Should give a better output.

[SiCaln]

Otherwise mount turbo and every thing else from the turbo engine. Should give a better output.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If only it were that easy

[Blue Icarian Wings]

Would need stronger piston head/rods for the increase in pressure, need the 4e-fte cam to take advantage of the new forced induction, and all the electronics, be that a turbo ecu or a aftermarket ecu powerFC from apexi or whatever!

I've heard the japs run higher octane petrol which gives them more power. The easiest way to get more is fit the better mani Info then to slap a K&N filter in the airbox (make sure it's the right one, Starletto_Joz has a thread about it somewhere I think), you can slap on a induction kit but it'll only be any use with the JDM mani

[starletboy]

the imports come with that manifold anyway wings!!!!!

[klyfax]

If only it were that easy

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Well if you mount turbo, manifold, oilconsole, waterpump thing and a intercooler. + a MS ECU your there. Cams with not give so much (about 5-10bhp) and the pistons can take it if you run with 0.6 bar of pressure. I will say that you will hit about 140 bhp...

Anyway, you can get 4E-FTE pistons for about 200...

[Blue Icarian Wings]

the imports come with that manifold anyway wings!!!!!

Lucky bastards! I didn't know that

the pistons can take it if you run with 0.6 bar of pressure

This probably going to be most stupid question ever, but i'm gonna ask as I'm interested to know

Drum roll

What pressure do NA's run at?

(I suppose I should ask what pressure my NA sucks air in at!)

[klyfax]

Ohh do they??? I didn't know... Well, I was wondering... Do you guys ever try the cheep way of tuning? Then take out the pistons and take 1-2 mm of the top... Or use 2 gaskets between cylinder head and the block... That should do it...

by the way I have seen more then 6 cars with this setup, without 2 gasket or 2 mm shorter pistons, and they work and hold to it... The biggset reson for burning pistons is a low mixture... Not NA pistons or bad pistons...

[Blue Icarian Wings]

Does seem a cheap way to increase displacement, the stroke(up/down travel of the piston) would still be the same, would that really matter, just thinking that increased displacement is good but at the top of the stroke you want the smallest gap between piston head and engine head for maximum force

Just musing, not an idea I've ever really thought about, anybody with more engine know-how know more?

[klyfax]

If you take 2 mm of the top on the pistons or put 2 gasket between head and block you won't change the stroke or displacement. You will change the compression. I have calulated on it now... If you take 1.3 mm of the top, or put an a larger gasket in (1.3 mm + orig. gasket) you will lower your compression from 9.6:1 (4E-FE) to 8.2:1 (4E-FTE). So if you hold the pressure on 0.6 bar the engine will hold as a turbo engine.

If you will displacement tune your car you have to install other rods, and crankshaft, up drill your cylinder to get a large bore. Change the pistons so they fit the new bore, and be sure to get them so they get an higher compression. change the gasket and put a lower gasket between head and block. Compression is now about 11:1 and a displacement approximately on 1400 ccm. Then you can change the intake with 4 trottle bodies, then change cams, value, valuespring and blah blah blah. This is the NA way. But this is much more expense way of tuning...

[Blue Icarian Wings]

Yeah sounds like a lot of work, my pip-dream is to use a 5E bottom end, same width pistons, but a larger stroke, takes the engine to 1.5L

[klyfax]

Bottom end? Is that the block or crankshaft, rods, pistons?

[klyfax]

If you take 2 mm of the top on the pistons or put 2 gasket between head and block you won't change the stroke or displacement. You will change the compression. I have calulated on it now... If you take 1.3 mm of the top, or put an a larger gasket in (1.3 mm + orig. gasket) you will lower your compression from 9.6:1 (4E-FE) to 8.2:1 (4E-FTE). So if you hold the pressure on 0.6 bar the engine will hold as a turbo engine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well this will hold and don't cost so much...

[Blue Icarian Wings]

Lowering the compression ratio allows you to turn up the pressure, wouldn't the increase in pressure still be unhealthy for the 4E rods? (their quite thin I think) heavy-duty pistons are the only answear to greater pressure/boost, but am I right in thinking your saying by lowering the compression you can run a weak turbo?

By 5E bottom end I mean block and the crankshaft (piston too in a way but as the are the same width as the 4E the 4E set could be reused)

[scutch0]

you dont HAVE to lower the compression... apparently its all in the tune, there are a few high compression turbos about... including dales old ep91 (austarletclub.com) that had a tdo4l turbo strapped straight on a n/a 4efe and was pushing 220bhp. which untill he sold it was running fine.

but were getting a bit off the point here... stixnolan, if your engine has the jdm inlet manifold on it listed above you already have one of the most powerful versions of the 4efe, and there isnt much in the way of after market performance parts available for the 4efe but if your wanting to stay n/a, a panel filter helps to iron out a few flat spots across the range, and a downpipe back exhaust system will probably help bring the revs up a bit quicker, and if your going down that route i would consider a 4 branch exhaust manifold, you can get these for the 5efe paseo off ebay.com that will fit. also maybe consider a set of 5efhe cams which have slightly higher lift and slightly longer duration... you can get these off andrew cliffe (toyotasera.co.uk).

other than that you could get the head skimmed (to increase the compression) ported and polished or maybe fit a 1.5 5efe 98bhp which drops in with no issues... but your close to that sort of power anyway.

hope that helps.

Rich.

[Jozinobi]

Hi Rich

Would getting the 5efe 4 branch exhaust manifold make a good upgrade for people running the jdm mani and just a standard exhaust system and backbox?

Induction kit runs well with the jdm mani indeed as I found out last night! ;b

Make sure u try both performance panel and induction kit Wings!

Peace Out

Joz

[scutch0]

the 5efe 4 branch is the jdm mani mate. they were fitted to both 4e or 5e's

[Blue Icarian Wings]

Is this the mani in question?

Probably reasking Joz's question, but if I get you, using said exhaust mani with a more free flowing would increase performance? (a free flowing exhaust would help anyway I suppose!)

you could get the head skimmed (to increase the compression) ported and polished

Could you explain that to me, not sure what they all mean, thanks

If your K&N panel is going free maybe I'll have it off you when I have the cash Joz!

[scutch0]

sorry, i understand what joz was asking now... it would probably be a good upgrade for the jdm mani... but you would defo need a full exhaust system. maybe keep the backbox, but centre section would be far to small.

this is the one i mean... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-EXHAUST...1QQcmdZViewItem

there is a guy who does mild steel ones that are miles cheaper... and i looked into getting one and it was gonna cost me £120 delivered from the states.

heres a bit about head skimming... http://pcwww.liv.ac.uk/~goodhew/Student%20...eadSkimming.htm

when you skim the head because your removing metal from where the head bolts to the block it brings the top of the chamber closer to the block/piston this increases the compression ratio.

Rich.

[Blue Icarian Wings]

Compression ratio, is to do with getting the fuel/air mixture to it's most efficient ignition point, to get the most from it (power/fuel economy)

However you want to avoid compressing it too much or it will ignite itself prematurely, screwing up your timing

That correct?

Timing can be adjusted, cams and sparks, but must be balanced to piston rotation(stuck with that) and compression ratios (+skimming/-more gaskests)

Forced induction system would increase the compresion ratio by nature of shoving more air in, already under pressure into the chamber to be compressed yet further, increasing risk of premature detonation, which itself can solved by advancing the ignition spark (as long as you piston is on the down stroke, otherwise reduce the compresion ratio)

Is that correct, or am I just not getting the basics of engine tuning?

Thanks for the help, hope I'm not being a bother!

[scutch0]

its a bit of a mind worker but i think thats all correct.

no worries. happy to help if i can.

Rich.

[klyfax]

Lowering the compression ratio allows you to turn up the pressure, wouldn't the increase in pressure still be unhealthy for the 4E rods? (their quite thin I think) heavy-duty pistons are the only answear to greater pressure/boost, but am I right in thinking your saying by lowering the compression you can run a weak turbo?

By 5E bottom end I mean block and the crankshaft (piston too in a way but as the are the same width as the 4E the 4E set could be reused)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who is taking about increaing the pressure? I'm taking about mounting a turbo on a 4E-FE and get it to hold like a 4E-FTE. But yes your right about heavy duty pistons, is the only way to get it to hold if you increase the pressure to about 25-30 psi.

Quote:

but am I right in thinking your saying by lowering the compression you can run a weak turbo?

Quote end.

The CT9 is a weak turbo as standard and 4E-FTE is a low compressions engine, so I don't understand the question...

[scutch0]

i think he means at a low psi.

[klyfax]

Compression ratio, is to do with getting the fuel/air mixture to it's most efficient ignition point, to get the most from it (power/fuel economy)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seen from the manufacturer side, yes. But seen from a tuners side, is to get so much as possible air in the engine at one stroke.

However you want to avoid compressing it too much or it will ignite itself prematurely, screwing up your timing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Only if you run on low octane gas...

Timing can be adjusted, cams and sparks, but must be balanced to piston rotation(stuck with that) and compression ratios (+skimming/-more gaskests)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats correct.

Forced induction system would increase the compresion ratio by nature of shoving more air in, already under pressure into the chamber to be compressed yet further, increasing risk of premature detonation, which itself can solved by advancing the ignition spark (as long as you piston is on the down stroke, otherwise reduce the compresion ratio)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It does not change the compresion ratio. The only way to change the compresion ratio is to change your bore or stroke.

And if your pistons is on a down stroke then the spark comes, your power is gone.

When you adjust your timing you set it to e.g. 10 degrees before top. Thats because the ignition takes some time to work. Then the ignition will be at full strength at 5 degrees after top = full power!.

And you won't risk a premature detonation, your pistons will just fry because they won't get the cooling they demand.

Hopes it helps...