Bourkey Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Right,As some of you may know i wanna change the engine in my car in the near future. I say near future i mean before MOT date which is the 17th of October. But i change my mind everyday about it.I want the 4EFTE as it's turbo power and i really want it and there are reasons that i don't need to explain aswell. But it is quite a hassle to do and the insurance is obviously more expensive than what im paying now. But recently i've been toying with the idea of a 5EFE conversion. I've been reading about it and it sounds a good swap. The reason is that it is more powerful than what im driving with now and if i wanted to turbo it at a later date i could but id have to get better internals for it. Plus i've seen a turboed 5e engine with 440bhp which sounds fun. Plus the insurance wouldn't have to know. All i need to know is which 5e engine do i use as i think there is more than one. Is this true.HEEEEEEELLLLLLPPPP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jozinobi Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Hey Bourkey mate.The 5efe is indeed a good n/a upgrade which will not cost the earth to do. I have recently done this conversion myself and I am quite satisfied. However you would know that Im not running a 'standard' 5e setup so to speak but you will still have noticeable gains running a stock 5efe and of course can build on it yourself. And of course there is scope to run a turbo on it at a later stage. Altho if you wanted to get its true potential you would have to run higher boost which will need everything in the engine to be forged. You can run it on low boost on standard internals but that would kinda defeat the object eh...There are many types of 5efe engines (JDM/USDM/UK but the most useful to you is the UK Spec 5efe and the most easily obtainable from the UK Toyota Paseo which also shares the same chassis as us altho it is rare to find a low mileage ones these days. It is also a 'drop in' engine and the only issues are changing over a few sensors namely a water sensor under the dizzy cap and one other I cant recall. You can also run the 4efe ecu which is what Im running at the moment, ideally you want to run the 5efe ecu as it was intended for the 5efe but due to it not agreeing with my immobiliser I couldnt run it. I will changing to more superior engine management later so its not that much of a prob for me. Also the 4efe ecu allows 6200 rev limit while the 5efe allows only 5800. The 5efe engine is geared towards mid range torque (making it a torquier engine) and does not respond as well to high revving like the 4efe. The 5efe will give you 89bhp and 96ft tq vs the 74bhp and 86ft torque you get from your 4efe. It may not seem like a huge increase but it will make your starlet more responsive and more fun to drive. Examples would be overtaking easier, pulling off faster with less effort and also getting to higher speeds quicker. Overall making your starlet a more efficient machine, not a miracle but at least even it up a little compared to todays hot hatches. At the end of the day, the 5efe is a 4efe with a 10mm higher block and thats the truth altho it is slightly less compression than the 4efe, 9:6:1 compared to 9:8:1. You can pass it off without telling insurance as the block is identical looking bar an engine code which is located underneath the exhaust manifold, which they wont find unless they are really in the know. Its also a safe upgrade so I wouldnt worry about it too much.I bought my 5efe for £250 which included all ancillaries and the 5efe ecu. The mileage was approx 26k. I had it couriered over to me in Ireland from the UK. Thats how much I wanted a low mileage example and I was very lucky to get it. You may find it hard to find a good example as most Paseo engines are 70k onwards.You may have heard of the 5efhe which is higher compression (jdm engine found in toyota sera/cynos) but it is harder to find one especially in good condition and mileage and altho it is a drop in, it will have wiring issues similar to the fte (It also has a knock sensor) You can find more info on the 5efhe engine in a writeup I done in the technical section. I can say that it performs and operates at its potential at higher revs, the torque power band is constant throughout the rev range which is a bonus. Again this has more benefits than the 5efe but will be hard to find, cost you a little more and will have wiring issues, but it is possible. The figures from the 5efhe vary but it would be safe to say it is around 108/110 bhp and 100ft torque. 5efhe which are equipped with the 'acis' manifold dont increase power as such but will activate secondary runners which will increase torque and efficiency. These are quite rare.Also talk directly to the handful of people who have done the 5efe n/a conversion Bourkey.whitestarletdub-se7entr1ckyThey will give you an idea of what benefits the 5efe gives and what is involved from a different perspective. Its good to hear different opinions on it also, so that you can get a better idea of what to expect etc.Hope this helps ;)Joz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bourkey Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 Thanks a lot Joz but where the hell did you find one for £250??? I want it now!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jozinobi Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I'm just a lucky guy Bourkey.And is that all the thanks I get???Just kidding lol ;)Read it again as I prob added some stuff since you saw it last ;) ^Expect to pay around £350 inc ecu from a scrapyard.Joz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bourkey Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 Thanks a lot Joz. I think i may go with this conversion.What about the loom though. Do you use the 4EFE one or do you have to uses the 5EFE one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jozinobi Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 You're welcome Bourkey.You use your existing loom mate, so no messing about ;)Joz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bourkey Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 Wow now that sounds easy!!!!!! Does it plug into the 5EFE ECU the same aswell. I have to do this asap Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jozinobi Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 The ep91 4efe and paseo 5efe ecus are identical in their plugs and fitment mate, so you can replace one with the other. You may find that you will need to somehow get past your factory immobilser as the 5efe ecu was not designed to run with your existing loom. But you may get lucky as it has worked for some people. You will know if it doesnt as the engine starts up a few seconds then dies (which is what an immobiliser does)There are a few fixes for this, but I will leave someone else to answer that. Most people who have done the conversion used the 4efe ecu also. It is ideal to run the 5efe ecu as it has the correct values/basemap for the engine but you will be set at a lower rev limit of 5800. The 5efe runs fine on the 4efe ecu but its not ideal.Yes mate, it really is such a simple switch, its just getting a decent one ;)Joz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rob_bower Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 what ever this man tells you is a lie ;) he stole that engine from right under my nose!!!!! on a more serious note it all depends what you want!!! there is a lot of talk of teaming the 5e to the 6 speed g6 box!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jozinobi Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 ;) He Who Dares Wins ;)Joz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rob_bower Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 sorry del!!!! good on you mate likei said before if i couldnt have it at least it has gone to someone who will make full un-aduterated use of it lol!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bourkey Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 there is a lot of talk of teaming the 5e to the 6 speed g6 box!!!I heard tis recently also from a friend who used to be a mechanic.@ Joz, thanks for all your advice mate, sorry i had to go so quick off msn i had to go an pick a friend up from airport an i forgot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Idrees Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Find a mint 5EFE and this will be a worthy swap! I plan on doing this swap, but obviously not yet, but everytime I just sit in my brothers GT, it makes me want a 4EFTE! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bourkey Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 Cheers guys for all the help.@dub, thanks for all the info when i was planning the 4EFTE aswell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mikey Jay Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Obviously I haven't driven a 5efe Starlet, but can say that going up from the 4efe to the 5efe (Starlet to Paseo) it is a really nice difference.The extra torque makes the car pretty effortless to drive around town (can be doing 30mph at 1500-1750 rpm depending on gear) and is far smoother in feel to the 4efe (due to the less revvy nature it seems less thrashy) with slightly better performance.However, you'll feel more of a gain, as the Paseo I drive is obviously heavier than a Starlet (is 100-200kg heavier I think?)I would recommend the 5efe swap, for simplicity, driveabilty and insurance reasons, plus there is the potential for uber power if you turbocharge it ;)Good luck in whatever you decide amigo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jozinobi Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Like I said Bourkey, no worries mate.Always happy to share knowledge with others, its what we're all here for.Like the Dubman said, it is a worthwhile conversion in starlet n/a terms and will freshen her up a 'lil' bit with some added torque.All the best with your decision.Joz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bourkey Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 howdy againJust a few more questions on this.How do you change over the sensors?Which exhaust would you use at the front the starlet one or the paseo one?Does the Corolla inlet mani fot on in the same way?cheers guys Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jozinobi Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Hi BourkeyRegarding the sensors, you just change them over. Like I said one is a water sensor under the dizzycap and the other I cant recall but its not difficult. Somebody will be able to pinpoint exactly where they are.You will use your old starlet exhaust mate, as the seo one will be different, will save you a lot of hassle anyway. And the rolla mani will bolt on the same as it would a 4efe and gives similar benefits, they are the same engine basically, with a 10mm taller block the main difference. Im using the rolla mani with my setup.The sensors etc are the least of your worries, it will be your main mission to find a decent example of a 5efe.Joz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bourkey Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Thanks Joz,Thats a good help. Im gonna start looking about for engines and if i find a good one i may buy it earlier.Sorry i didn't respond on MSN last nyt Joz, i fell asleep at my computer. I was also taking to my girlfriend and she wasn't happy about it neither. whoops Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StarletRick Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 i might be able to find you a decent 5efhe if you like.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bourkey Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Stop getting me tempted!!!! Ok then do. ;) How much roughly? would i be able to buy it in sept? and is the wiring as difficult as the 4EFTE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jozinobi Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 p.s.....I got my 5e for £60 ;) Yea but all you got was the bottom end Joz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jozinobi Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 By all means get a 5efhe Bourkey.I would like to see one in an EP.Just have someone waiting in the wings to wire it for you.All the best. We've all said our piece so the choice is yours ;)Joz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jozinobi Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Bloody bargain lol! ;)Joz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Starletmeech Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 I am interested in the 5e conversion too! for the whole insurance fiasco (I had a crazy dream about putting on a G6 box and turboing it, maybe make it my long term plan ;))oh and by the way bourkey there is a battered paseo for sale on ebay and a one breaking! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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