dazstarlet

Welcome, yes it is for all Starlet models.

So looks like bottom end is gone on my EP91 NA. New shells did not help, and one of the cams has worn lobes at the corners. I have found a garage that has experience of these issues and they normally get the cranks sent off for a regrind. But they are encouraging me to get a whole engine change. I can see that would be a lot less hassle for them, but i'm not keen as what Starlet motor has not seen a lot of action... I don't want the same issue a year down the line on another engine.

Should I look to replace the cam at the same time as a regrind and new bearing shells? Reading another post I take it that after the crank comes back the measurements to determine bearing clearance are critical so Toyota send the right ones? Anything else that might need to be replaced due to damage? I'll try to get a video tomorrow of sound from engine. It's not pretty to the ears

I have a budget of about £600 ish for this. That should be enough you think?

Cheers all.

Have you got the car now? Can you get a video? Might help a bit more regarding the type of sound.

Will try and get a video sorted...

This bloke was in Peterborough Sefton. Small world!

I guess if they don't know what the problem is then you are on to a loser right from the offset, that's the problem I am finding more of these days. I mean the Starlet must be one of the simplest cars to work on!

How much free labour will a garage give you before they find the root cause and fix it? The small guys don't have the expensive diagnostic machines, so it's a case of trial and error which eats the hours up and it's not something they seem to want to get involved with for maybe just a few hours of 'actual' fix labour. Plus if you give someone permission to go ahead and do work based on what is effectively their best guess (if they tell you that they are not 100% sure) are you not ultimately liable to pick up the tab if it's not fixed, even just for the parts they have used?

The same was true of 3 different garages with my suspension problems this year too. None of them fixed it totally. I am running out of mechanics to try

Just posted in the engines section about my woes with a problem which despite shelling out over £200 to have fixed actually hasn't fixed the problem at all. This is becoming quite common in my experience with both mechanics and some DIY / home improvement tradesmen, as maybe skills are on the wane what with no apprenticeships and such like these days.

But wondered how others deal with this sort of thing? Assuming you don't do your own work on your cars (and I know a lot do on the forum), do you drive a car away from a garage without paying first and take it back if it's not fixed teling them you won't pay unless they sort it, or do you pay up front and go back and complain? If like me you've paid for parts that have not fixed the issue, together with the labour cost to fit them it isn't likely you will get refunded so what can you do without causing a major row and accusing garage / mechanic or being incompentent?

Just wondered if others have experiences like this and how you handled it. I am truly fed up of paying out for substandard work, and like I say it seems to becoming more and more common these days. I've had problems with several garages in the last few years, maybe I just pick the bad guys!

Well it's not been a happy 2015 for my Starlet. What with continuing suspension issues now in last month it's developed a nasty sounding noise which seems to be coming from the engine. Noise is like a throaty 'thrumming / gargling' noise which is there all the time, and very noticeable when you lift off the gas and revs decrease or when you depress clutch and change gear.

The noise got really bad and I took it to a garage near where I worked who said I should not drive it, and that it was a bottom end problem (garage took the to an engine 'specialist' and they said it was bottom not top end). So after taking off the head they could not see anything in terms of gunk in the block - it is as clean as a whistle, but the lobes on one of the cams (nearest to passenger bulkhead) have worn down on one corner. Not good, but there is enough of the lobe still ok that they did not think that was a root cause of the noises.... They suggested new crank shells which I duly paid out for and were fitted. They have made absolutely diddly squat difference to the problem

So I am £230 light and still have issue which is sounding worse by the day. Probably my own fault for using this garage, as despite seeming to have a good reputation on the internet the same bloke could not sort out my suspension woes either. My new years resolution: he's never touching my Starlet or getting my business again, two strikes and you're out....

Anyway, a friend said it could be conrods, so could it be something to do with a mis-fitted belt? The same useless garage fitted a new one as part of a service about 5 months back, but they of course reckon that is fitted fine and not the root cause. I suppose the lobes would be worn on both cams if it was a belt / timing issue?

Any ideas lads? I don't want to see my beloved Starlet go to the scrapper, but I don't want a huge bill for an engine rebuild either If I can help it.

An update, and touch wood it's good news. I have a two strikes and you are done policy with garages and mechanics, so it was never a possibility I would go back to the same guy for a 3rd time after he checked the car out and told me all was fine. So searching around for a good mechanic I had a gut feeling that this local old chap who specialised in Land Rovers would (or should) know his stuff when it came to suspension matters. So I trundled off to his garage before work yesterday so he could take a look.

We went out for a road test, and although I could easily sense the same issue from the passenger seat the mechanic was not really seeing or feeling what the problem was. He said the rear was following the front fine. Ok..... So I was a bit deflated at that point. But my hunch that he would be the right man turned out good. He did hear a clanking sound when we came out of a corner, so he had something to go on. We got back to his garage and he had an inspection pit and a machine that tests out suspension and wheel movement. Large moving pads that one side of the wheels sit on shake everything to buggary and he watched from underneath (pretty damn scary to watch too... the movement in all directions that it forces from the wheels / suspension is so much you think it will break them off!). At last he sees that it is in fact one of the bushes that the last bloke checked twice and swore blind were fine, it's perished and there is quite a lot of movement forwards and backwards - so the left rear is moving out of vertical alignment which would explain the oversteer and sense of freewheeling around corners and the general instability I feel.

So fingers crossed this is near to resolved. Thanks for the advice you gave chaps, I will post once more if/when this sorts it but it looks promising.

did ya upload the video

Yes it's up now mate. Not too great I don't think to see anything.

I have created a video, maybe it will show something you guys can see is wrong.

https://youtu.be/bix2J2X_Z3s

Thanks for all the replies. Appreciate it. I will check out the things you mention may be wrong. You are worrying me though in one way... I mentioned the pan rod as maybe a root cause to one of the people who has seen the car underneath and they told me it didn't have one Maybe that's the problem! Has it fallen off... I'd better get that checked out... Excuse my ignorance but is that adjustable or fixed on the UK model? The car was in a minor shunt on the drivers side, but it was only light panel damage afaik. Did not have the problems at that point or when the car came out of the bodyshop. Other than that shunt it has had a quiet life with a pensioner first owner before me.

Hope you guys can help me out here, this problem is really making me crazy! Sorry for all the waffle in the detail bit, but hopefully the timeline history may help you to understand what the problem may be.

Brief:

Car feels like it's moving side to side at the back - this is at high speed or over big bumps etc. Seems to have lateral play in rear suspension even when you push on the side panels.

Going around sharp corners there is a lot of oversteer and car feels like it's freewheeling.

Detail:

So first a rundown on the history of suspension work on the car.

I decided to have new suspension fitted all round as it was on all originals, so a couple of years ago I had some KYB shocks and struts fitted at each corner + bump stops all round + new front top mounts (KYB did not sell rear top mounts for some reason). The fitter I used messed up at the front, but the new stuff at the rear seemed fine and eventually all was sorted and handling was much improved (together with new 15" Yaris alloys that had been fitted).

One year later I started to feel handling get a bit 'sloppy', could not put my finger on why though and soon after a rear top mount failed which I assumed was the sloppy handling root cause issue and both rear mounts were replaced. Initially after that was done things seemed a bit better, but gradually since then handling has deteriorated. The feeling was now quite clear - that is that the car seemed to be unstable at the rear end over bumps and at speed. It feels like the rear end is moving about side to side, with the drivers side seeming to be the culprit. Sometimes there is a weird sensation of 'free-wheeling', and it even makes you feel a bit disorientated when you drive. My thoughts were backed up by a few drivers who seemed to be flashing their lights at me from behind - like they could see something wrong as I drive the car. This got worse until tbh driving the car felt dangerous. I noticed that the car even shakes more than it should when you shut the door! One other thing is that when I reversed up a slight incline over a low height kerb stone every night to park up I could always hear a clanking sound coming from the back (that always sounded like the left rear side though).

So off car goes for normal service and I tell the mechanic about the issue which people were telling me it might be the rear bushes. As part of the service I already planned to have new wheel bearings all round (+ new rear drums and front tie rods) so if bearings were the issue that would be sorted. This work was all done, and the mechanic found that the right side new KYB shock had failed. Both rear shocks were replaced with what I imagine are inferior motor factor generic replacements.

Problem solved so mechanic said after he road tested it ... er, no it's not solved at all. Far from it. Certainly the car felt a bit better initially (as it would if a shock had gone), but even after having a decent front wheel alignment with Hunter machine the car again felt like it was moving about at rear and now getting worse. The wheel alignment chap could see nothing wrong with rear suspension on the ramp. So then went off to my usual tyre fitter and asked there advice. Told them all the story and the lad shoved on the rear right wheel and we could both see some movement there and even heard a clanking sound that seemed to be coming from between new drums and the hub. That's your problem said the lad, so car goes back to garage and I tell mechanic about the clanking from this right side wheel. He double checks things and tells me that the bushes are 100% fine, but he did find some play in the new wheel bearings at the rear both sides so he tightens them up. He road tests the car and tells me all is ok the problem is solved... again no it's not solved at all.

So now I am at a loss. I have had new rear top mounts, shocks, springs, bump stops, bearings. Plus the bushes are fine I am assured and also had tracking done and there is no steering judder so that should be wheel balancing out of the equation.

I could be chasing my tail now if the replacement rear shocks or new bearings are rubbish quality, but I don't see why that should be. It doesn't feel like vertical travel is the problem. What else could it be that the mechanics have missed twice and the tracking guy can't see when it's on the ramp? Any ideas appreciated, as I am out of them

I am looking for a screw on type with backing plate that just says Toyota or Starlet, not the Toyota emblem or TRD or Toyota Sport like I see on Ebay. Not too hopeful as they don't seem to be a UK thing for EP91's afaik, but something like what they put on the standard EP91 JDM's or Remix version (red letters on black backing).

Any coloured letters fine, as long as the condition is good.

I work in Peterborough mate, but travel up the A15 through Mkt Deeping rather than go on the bypass. I think that road from the church up to the roundabout is the most f*cked up road I have ever used except for a b road that got pretty destroyed in the floods a few years back. It's shocking, I'm surprised it's even allowed to be that bad.

This weekend when I get 10 mins spare a letter of complaint is going to be written!

If anyone has any experience of dealing with those in power to get roads repaired, any advice welcome...

Basically a familiar story, in a local town I have to drive through a road was dug up right across for a utility pipe or to connect up a specific building to the mains ... something like that. Anyway, the contract people that did it have left the road in a bloody awful state. The trench they dug has only been partially filled and re-tarmaced, leaving an enormous concave 'ditch' behind.

I'd say for cyclists and motor bikers it's possible even dangerous, and I don't think it coincidence that one of my rear top-mounts gave up the ghost only weeks after this abysmal failure of road repair was done and I'd been over it a few times.

Now my rear top mounts were the originals so they were tired, and my low profile hard compund tyres do not help, but really even at low speed you feel like the suspension is going to break going over the trench they've left behind.

So I want to bitch at someone in authority about it, but I don't know whether to try the local councillor for the area or go to the highways authority? Would the council make the contractor come back and fix it?

I am so sick of the state of the roads in my local neck of the woods South Kesteven, Lincs. I swear I have not seen a single road repair so far this summer. God help us if we have a bad winter and they have not done any by then!

The local roads are not quite like the 3rd world just yet, but must be about equal to the 2nd world i'd say

Cheers chaps... The cambelt was done @ 50k by when I bought the car. Other than that I think just oil and filters have been done when servicing. I'll get the things you mentioned priced up and changed though. Sounds like it might be cheaper than what I thought if I had the bearings and clutch replaced.

Trouble is from what reviews i've read the Starlet clutch was mentioned as being able to be slipped even when new, so it's hard to know if it's degraded much. IDWorkz have a new ones on offer for £70 ish, so it's cheaper than a lot of other parts to replace to be on the safe side.

What do you think is best lads? I don't do my own repairs, and if you go to some garages they wonder why you want this or that replaced when it's not yet broken or totally worn out. But I prefer not to wait to something breaks (and car breaks down with it...).

What do you think might need replacing at certain mileages? My EP91 has gone over 80k now, so was thinking it might be due new wheel bearings and a new clutch (sometimes I can't get it into reverse without several attempts). What about the radiator, is that something with a set lifespan?

Anything else that might need to be replaced now? Other than consumables / general maintenance items like belts and brakes it's had only new suspension so far, and tbh it's starting to feel a bit tired compared to three years ago when I bought it. I want to keep it tight and tidy for another 3+ years if possible.

Any thoughts or ideas appreciated.

The way that forums and car 'scenes' change over time is because like others have said the cars get older and more popular, and so the prices devalue over time. In turn that brings them into price range and ownership of some pretty undesirable scallys / chavs who just abuse them, and so it starts a nasty spiral from there really.

It seems to be a Jap car phenomenon as they are so much cheaper to run, longlasting and can take much more of a beating than Euro marques. Jap cars can be seriously messed about with and thrashed and still be runners. But it changes the whole scene when that starts to happen, and i've seen it personally before with the Civic Type R owners forum when I used to drive CTR's.

I'm trying really hard to covince a friend at work not to get a GTR for exactly the same reasons. He thinks it's a premium car right now, but he'll regret it when he sees chavs driving max power modded versions of them a few years down the road as surely they will do

I've not been around here long, but this UKSO forum is a LOT happier and friendlier even now than CTR owners forum ever was as far as I can remember, and the affection most owners have for their lil' Starlets is great.

Most Audi's are all as dull to drive as watching paint dry. A mate let me drive his 300bhp S3... yawn.

Hell I'd take a Merc over an Audi.

I can't do this anymore using the URL link function - tried in a couple of different UKSO forums. The dialog box won't either OK or Cancel, and you have to abandon the post to come out of it. Never used to have any issues.

Any ideas?

Is it possible to have the body colour matching paint removed from the bumpers to go back to the orginal moulding colour which I think is a black / grey similar to maybe Klyfax's Starlet on here? If not can a matt effect black be sprayed rather than a shiny gloss black? A gloss effect would not match up with the original black plastic body trim and wing mirror plastics on my EP91 S.

What do people think about black bumpers, I know you only see them on vans these days but the Japs got some EP91 basic models with them and I really want to tidy my car up without respraying it all - the bumpers get bloody filthy being white and have been botched by a previous person with an off-white touchup to cover some bumper paint scrapes.

Nice collection chap. Great going. Really love these old Starlets. I have you ever stumbled across a Turbo R in your hunt for these? They are real sleepers to look at compared to the S, which I like.

I have on my EP91 tailgate a medium sized dent that has resulted in the paint cracking. It's only a faint crackline, but nonetheless it's there. I'm trying to avoid paying out for a full respray (which I'm led to believe if done properly will be £1k+). Can a small area be resprayed and blend in, or would it need the whole tailgate to be done at the mimimum.

The car is the standard non-metallic white. I think with a good clean and polish and some small dents taken out it will come it really nice, and should not need spraying except for this cracked bit which needs more TLC (and the bumpers perhaps need redoing to cover some botched touch-ups by previous owner).

Any experience or thoughts?

Cheers.

1&1 Internet have been around for ages mate. One of the biggest webhosts and domain registrars. The have template based websites for people to build, and they can have Paypal payments.

And you sound like a keeper

He was online on 11th December to accept thanks for another sale he made. Sounds like a standup guy from feedback. Perhaps you should use the forum for dispute mediation...