richardc9052 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Yeah and I road map my own cars and I have used the software for emanage, aem, megasquirt, ecumaster and its all near enough the same. Yeah you have to spend 20mins getting used to the new interface and how it works with your car but going from each one to the next is like getting into a different car. They all have their own little quirks but if you can drive, you can drive anything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LewisSussex Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 fair enough guys, again i really appreciate the info. from what you guys are saying i think its best to go for the ecu master. its more healthy for my wallet aswell lol. have you gone standalone? and also where did you get it all fitted etc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
turbo-fever Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I have gone standalone not sure about Richard thought might aswell now save me doing it in the future but I am running a fairly powerful setup already. Mine was done in Kimbolton In peterborough which is a trek for me but same with most people you have to travel if you want something good Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gorganl2000 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) in my opinion its all personal preference...like with anything elseas said, some tuners are more familiar with certain ecu/software than others, so they tend to want to stick to what they know, as no one wants to risk destroying an engine while tuningthe reasons for the preferences may be influenced by infinite reasons---distributor contracts, familiarity with hardware/software, costs, piggy vs standalone, hear say, ease of installation, need for peripheral accessories, inputs/outputs, processing speeds, ancillary controls, etc. i'd suggest you stick to whatever the tuner you choose is comfortable...it makes life easy this way. some tuners will have preferences but still work with other brand ecus/piggybacks,,,,while some tuners will only work with the ecus they sell or know about.....there is really no wrong way, its just business at the end of the day whatever system you end up choosing, i'd again suggest you keep a few things in mind---cost, reliability, software updates, car set up upgrades, distance to tuner if/when tweaks are needed, reputation, etc. Edited August 17, 2016 by gorganl2000 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richardc9052 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Well for ecumaster Cost-Lower than most for much more featuresReliability - only saw one fail when injectors with incorrect impedance where wired in (ecumaster repaired the damaged drivers for free of charge)Software updates - Ecumaster are constantly updating their products. most recent was a few weeks ago, giving the Standalone the ability to individually control injection angle.The tuner distance and reputation are the only things that would worry me. If you know what ecu you want to use then go for it and find a reputable tuner that will work with what YOU want. its YOUR car, not the tuners. Its kind of like building your house and the builder doesnt want to build a house with 5 rooms because he is only good at building houses with 4 rooms. For those happy to comply because its easier to go with that tuner or because he has good rep thats fine i can understand but i dont like being told what to do. Its not like they are offering advice its just they want to tune your car their way. which annoys me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I know exactly what would happen if a tuner mapped something they wasn't comfortable with because I've seen it all before... get shit results, posts it on the interwebs slagging off that tuner for a shit map / poor results, reputation goes down, business falls in certain markets etc etc. Is that a risk a tuner would be happy to take? I certainly wouldn't. Not being funny, but probably 90% of tuners wouldn't touch something decent like a Syvecs, Pectel, TAG etc because it's far too advanced for them, and guess what... End up with shit results. It doesn't matter whether you pick a budget ECU or a high end spec one, it's only as good as the person calibrating it. If you're willing to travel then find someone who will calibrate an ECU that's within your budget. If not stick with someone local and take their advice on choosing something they know well and can get good results from. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richardc9052 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Mate on the lower end scale of things like emanage, DET3, unichip etc they are very similar. When the settings are basic like timing advance, timing retard and when they use the same fuelling algorithms and ve tables i cant see how you would get more power from one than you would the other. The higher spec stuff like what you mentioned i can understand but that a different ball game. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vturbo Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 good reviews from me for redline. good results and also flagged any issues with the car while it was on the dyno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Mate on the lower end scale of things like emanage, DET3, unichip etc they are very similar. When the settings are basic like timing advance, timing retard and when they use the same fuelling algorithms and ve tables i cant see how you would get more power from one than you would the other. The higher spec stuff like what you mentioned i can understand but that a different ball game. It's not about the settings, even high end ECU's have the stuff you mentioned. It's about the user-interface, terminology etc. Some people aren't fully aware of what does what so to speak on different software.I know someone that can calibrate the best aftermarket ECU's money can buy, Syvecs, Pectel, Motec etc but he can't do Emanage... Or at least not as well. That doesn't make him shit because he can't calibrate budget ECU's despite being simpler and using basic settings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richardc9052 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Im not saying he is "shit" i gave plenty of other reasons why he might not map them, thats the only one you have picked up on though. I am guessing you havent mapped a car yourself? The interfaces are o so similar between most of them. I havent been able to get my hands on unichip software because its dealer licensed and i havent been bothered to try and get a cracked version just to look at but ill bet its just the same as the rest ive played with. And straight back round to one of my other reasons why he might not map them and thats the fact that he has to be a dealer of unichip to map them, hence he has stock to sell, meaning he is going to try and push that onto customers by refusing to map other products. So ill repeat. i dont like it when people try and do that because its better for them. At the end of the day your still paying for install and mapping but yeah he doesnt get a sale.. so what? He loses out on the sale profit but the customer has to stump up the extra for a more expensive ecu just because he wants the sale?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LewisSussex Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 Cheers for all the info guys. Think I'm swaying towards the det 3 what are they like to fit? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richardc9052 Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Very simple to fit. You need to test and calculate resistance of your sensors to input to det3 client. I do suggest however that you let the person thats going to map it wire the det3 in as the inputs need to be setup in the client also. The det3 in fit mode is standalone fuelling so you can run bigger injectors if you need to and rpm limit can also be raised. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Im not saying he is "shit" i gave plenty of other reasons why he might not map them, thats the only one you have picked up on though. I am guessing you havent mapped a car yourself? The interfaces are o so similar between most of them. I havent been able to get my hands on unichip software because its dealer licensed and i havent been bothered to try and get a cracked version just to look at but ill bet its just the same as the rest ive played with. And straight back round to one of my other reasons why he might not map them and thats the fact that he has to be a dealer of unichip to map them, hence he has stock to sell, meaning he is going to try and push that onto customers by refusing to map other products. So ill repeat. i dont like it when people try and do that because its better for them. At the end of the day your still paying for install and mapping but yeah he doesnt get a sale.. so what? He loses out on the sale profit but the customer has to stump up the extra for a more expensive ecu just because he wants the sale?? The interfaces between the low-mid budget ECU's are very similar, I've not used Emanage, DET3, but things like Kmanager, Link, Haltech, Omex, DTA are all fairly similar and easy to pick up on. The ECU's I mentioned have a whole totally different user interface, which to some is more like writing code lol.I work for an OEM manufacturer and work very very closely with the calibration team, so I know exactly what goes on regards to ECU software, interface, layout, options etc. I understand what you're saying, people aren't in business to not make money though. It depends on how big the firm is, the bigger the firm you would expect greater knowledge and more flexible in using / selling various aftermarket options. Issues arise when people aren't upfront with the customer so to speak. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richardc9052 Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 The thing is they are still making money.. they are being paid for their services, just not getting the sale from the ecu in the first place. And we are talking about said lo-mid budget ecus, not the higher end that you mentioned so in this case the tuner should be well able to map a variety of them. Its plain greed. Dont get me wrong,I understand you point but in this secific situation the difference between the low-mid and high end ecus is irrelevant ans we are only discussing low-mid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gorganl2000 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 The interfaces between the low-mid budget ECU's are very similar, I've not used Emanage, DET3, but things like Kmanager, Link, Haltech, Omex, DTA are all fairly similar and easy to pick up on. The ECU's I mentioned have a whole totally different user interface, which to some is more like writing code lol. I work for an OEM manufacturer and work very very closely with the calibration team, so I know exactly what goes on regards to ECU software, interface, layout, options etc. I understand what you're saying, people aren't in business to not make money though. It depends on how big the firm is, the bigger the firm you would expect greater knowledge and more flexible in using / selling various aftermarket options. Issues arise when people aren't upfront with the customer so to speak. very true adam,,,those top end brands are top end for a reason...i'm no tuner nor have i tuned anything, but i've been lucky enough to see a few low, mid and top end brands being installed/tuned/set-up....when you start dealing with the high end stuff, it really starts to get serious Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gorganl2000 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 The thing is they are still making money.. they are being paid for their services, just not getting the sale from the ecu in the first place. And we are talking about said lo-mid budget ecus, not the higher end that you mentioned so in this case the tuner should be well able to map a variety of them. Its plain greed. Dont get me wrong,I understand you point but in this secific situation the difference between the low-mid and high end ecus is irrelevant ans we are only discussing low-mid. i can understand exactly what you are saying richard....and i can agree for the most partas said before, its really just business for these guys...for one reason or the other they choose their paths---and its usually profit involved somewhere in that decision Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LewisSussex Posted August 21, 2016 Author Share Posted August 21, 2016 cheers guys! ive ended up ordering a det 3 from rrr engineering. how do i go about fitting it. is there a plug and play loom i can buy? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richardc9052 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 No, i would honestly let whoever is mapping it do the wiring as there are a few things you wont be able to do until its on the rolling road anyway like connecting the injectors cant be done while your doing initial fuelling settings and you need to cut the injector feeds from the standard ecu so you wont be able to drive the car without a map... If you want it done so you can go back to standard, buy a jumper/field harness. You can get one made also by ripping the female side from a spare ecu and buying the male plugs off somebody. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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