Ecu master det 3 wiring ?

[Errol]

Hi hello to everyone new on here as title sais recently bought myself a starlet running a td04 set up and is needing tuned I have a det3 in my garage and thought would be as well making use of it anyone used one had any experience with them any Info would be great thanks in advance 

[Frankieflowers]

Nobody ever replied? I really want to upgrade to this piggyback but there are too many questions and gray zones. That is why I I still hold on to my stock tc9 and ecu. Anyway to get decent horsepower it will need special rods, pistons and a strong gearbox. In my opinion a td04 is only gonna stress the stock mechanics. . 

[Claymore]

4 hours ago, Frankieflowers said:

Nobody ever replied? I really want to upgrade to this piggyback but there are too many questions and gray zones. That is why I I still hold on to my stock tc9 and ecu. Anyway to get decent horsepower it will need special rods, pistons and a strong gearbox. In my opinion a td04 is only gonna stress the stock mechanics. . 

 

Hello. My tuner at the beginning told me the best option was a EMU Classic. Then I told him that I wanted to keep my air conditioning and RPM cluster and working so he said that probably it was better to use a piggyback. The only thing that worries me is that he said that the DET 3 has just been released but I know this is not true. I told them back in the day is about it but he wouldn’t even think about it. So I would like to ask if I could work on a map by myself without fucking up.

Plenty of people use TD04 setups on 4efte engines, most consider 200bhp "safe" on stock internals and the larger turbo will still be in its efficiency range where as the stock ct9 at this bhp level will most likely be off the edge of the efficiency map (high temp charge air).

I don't post on the other forum but it all depends on what level you want to be involved in the tuning process and how much control you need for your build.

Piggyback is basic level control, minimal wiring, only retarding timing and adjusting MAP sensor voltage to trick the Toyota ECU to adjust fuel. relatively simple to tune.

Things like Emanage ultimate are still a piggyback, more complex wiring, take full control of the injector pulse and timing control whilst leaving the stock ECU in place to run some of the car systems. Many standalone ECU's have also been installed this way using a special plug and play (breakout?) harness, it can get to a level where the stock ecu is still kept (for auto g'box a/c etc), standalone ecu has full control of engine management with looms for sequential injection and coil on plug etc. Ask @RobSR, he deals with this all the time. More complicated to tune.

Full standalone, lots of wiring, no stock ECU, very complex to tune. Wiring should be ok but tuning best left to the professionals.

Tuning on the road with any system is far from ideal, fuelling adjustment from WBO2 data logs are possible, but the timing retard is difficult to set for maximum, safe power without detonation cans / monitoring and best left to the safe environment of a dyno. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Claymore

[Frankieflowers]

On 5/15/2022 at 9:44 AM, Claymore said:

Plenty of people use TD04 setups on 4efte engines, most consider 200bhp "safe" on stock internals and the larger turbo will still be in its efficiency range where as the stock ct9 at this bhp level will most likely be off the edge of the efficiency map (high temp charge air).

I don't post on the other forum but it all depends on what level you want to be involved in the tuning process and how much control you need for your build.

Piggyback is basic level control, minimal wiring, only retarding timing and adjusting MAP sensor voltage to trick the Toyota ECU to adjust fuel. relatively simple to tune.

Things like Emanage ultimate are still a piggyback, more complex wiring, take full control of the injector pulse and timing control whilst leaving the stock ECU in place to run some of the car systems. Many standalone ECU's have also been installed this way using a special plug and play (breakout?) harness, it can get to a level where the stock ecu is still kept (for auto g'box a/c etc), standalone ecu has full control of engine management with looms for sequential injection and coil on plug etc. Ask @RobSR, he deals with this all the time. More complicated to tune.

Full standalone, lots of wiring, no stock ECU, very complex to tune. Wiring should be ok but tuning best left to the professionals.

Tuning on the road with any system is far from ideal, fuelling adjustment from WBO2 data logs are possible, but the timing retard is difficult to set for maximum, safe power without detonation cans / monitoring and best left to the safe environment of a dyno. 

Thank you very much. So at first they told me it was better to go with a EMU CLASSIC but aa I wanted to keep AC and RPM cluster working, I dropped the option, esperially because I don’t want to change the stock ct9. My tuner came with the idea of the DET 3 and I agree but The thing is that he doesn’t have experience with that piggyback and he doesn’t know my 4efte engine. He said that 1.2 bar on the ct9 wouldn’t be a problem. What do you think? I want to get rid of the limiter that cuts ignition at 185 km/h. I don’t need much more horsepower because I already have fun with what I have. So yes I could reach 180 HP and be happy. Hi also would want to keep the low boost switch to jump from 0,9 stock to 1.2.

what do you think about it?

[Claymore]

8 hours ago, Frankieflowers said:

Thank you very much. So at first they told me it was better to go with a EMU CLASSIC but aa I wanted to keep AC and RPM cluster working, I dropped the option, esperially because I don’t want to change the stock ct9. My tuner came with the idea of the DET 3 and I agree but The thing is that he doesn’t have experience with that piggyback and he doesn’t know my 4efte engine. He said that 1.2 bar on the ct9 wouldn’t be a problem. What do you think? I want to get rid of the limiter that cuts ignition at 185 km/h. I don’t need much more horsepower because I already have fun with what I have. So yes I could reach 180 HP and be happy. Hi also would want to keep the low boost switch to jump from 0,9 stock to 1.2.

what do you think about it?

Well, 1.2 bar from a stock CT9 sounds like too much to me. I don't think I'd push one that far, as I said before it will be producing very hot air and not be good for power. Most say that 1 bar is the limit really. Boost cut is around 0.8 bar so you'll have to deal with that too. You can go for a ct9 hybrid turbo if you need more power. You already have an air filter, intercooler and exhaust downpipe, fuel pump upgrade so that's good.

You will need to port the restrictions from the cast exhaust manifold in runners 2 and 3 or replace it with a tubular item if your increasing the boost. If you don't there is a danger of piston ring land damage apparently. Also the CT9's are quite famous for boost creep, so upping the boost may cause this. You may need a ported wastegate in the turbo.

I would install a wideband O2 sensor and gauge before doing anything. Then port / replace the exhaust manifold. Then a HKS adjustable actuator set to just below boost cut and see how it feels at 0.75bar. You might be happy with it there for a while.

[Frankieflowers]

Thank you. The first question is how can I get rid of the stock speed limiter? Can I install the Piggyback and just get rid of that to start?

we already modified the exhaust opening the turbo side ports. It’s similar to what you posted on your thread.  Is this enough??

[Claymore]

2 hours ago, Frankieflowers said:

Thank you. The first question is how can I get rid of the stock speed limiter? Can I install the Piggyback and just get rid of that to start?

we already modified the exhaust opening the turbo side ports. It’s similar to what you posted on your thread.  Is this enough??

I don't think it's enough, I didn't remove much material from the + in the turbo side. The big restrictions are in the #2 and #3 runners, so your restrictions are still there. My build thread shows where to remove material. Or if you don't want to grind it you should buy a tubular manifold before you increase the boost.

The speed limit removal can be either electronic (hks sld) or a mechanical gearbox thing connected to the speedo drive cable, but that will change the speedo reading.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Claymore

[Frankieflowers]

On 5/19/2022 at 5:55 PM, Claymore said:

I don't think it's enough, I didn't remove much material from the + in the turbo side. The big restrictions are in the #2 and #3 runners, so your restrictions are still there. My build thread shows where to remove material. Or if you don't want to grind it you should buy a tubular manifold before you increase the boost.

The speed limit removal can be either electronic (hks sld) or a mechanical gearbox thing connected to the speedo drive cable, but that will change the speedo reading.

When we were in the process of grinding the exhaust manifold we figured that getting rid of material in the areas where the bolts get in would create weak areas that could crack. My friend didn’t feel like doing it. There are these Indian guys who sell a custom exhaust made of cast iron. I would have to buy that one and replace it. 
about the speed limiter I am curious to know how everyone got rid of it. 

[Claymore]

Think most people used the HKS SLD, some piggyback ecu's can delete it or a speedo cable reduction gearbox. But this last one changes the speedo to mph and raises the speed limit to 180mph as far as I can remember.

[Frankieflowers]

I had several conversations with Sacha from Sri Lanka.

this is not out of topic because the mechanical changes I am willing to apply to the engine should be done to make sure that adding power with the DET 3  piggyback will be safe.

in my head there are two options. After all my research I thought that modifying the stock exhaust manifold or buying a mild steel stock location manifold would be enough to gain more power using the piggyback without having mechanical problems like boost cream.

The second option is buying the steel relocation exhaust manifold that demands certain modifications. The water pipes on the turbo has to be modified. There has to be a new oil pipe added on the turbo. The turbo(cold side)  probably must be clocked 90° facing down. The air conditioning pipe Hass to be cut on the aluminum part and redirected externally in order to get space for the air filter turbo input. The EFI will have to go and as I want to keep the air filter on the battery side of the engine high will have to create a pipe that goes underneath the manifold and pops out on the battery side. This considering the fact that the Corolla has more space between the engine and the radiator.

I would like to your opinion because if the first option doesn’t create turbo issues it would be much more cheaper. Problem is though that Sacha doesn’t make them anymore and I don’t know where to find a mild steel stock location manifold. This option wouldn’t cost more than $700. The other option would cost me $950 for the manifold and $400 for the waste gate. I would have to spend at least $150 to create a new air filter pipe and a new hot pipe for the turbo.

What do you think?

Concerning the Piggyback, I didn’t find a base map to start so my brother will help me with the wiring but the precious data for the configuration will have to be somehow improvised because nobody I know have done this work on a 4efte. I still haven’t bought the DET 3 but instead I bought the SPL speed limiter that I still haven’t installed because I want to decide whether I will do the full work and use the speed limiter function on the piggyback.