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Toyota 4E & 5E different cams.


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OnI've had alot of messages about cams. Mainly the different uk 4efe inlet cam and 5efe, 4efte inlet cam (these two are the same). Also the jdm 5ehfe cams which have more lift on the inlet and outlet cam.

It seems that this was relatively unknown territory until I started to talk about it. This is something I have been told about threw a comprohnsive starlet tuning book I've been handed from the previous owner. I've measured the cams and found that this guild is correct there is a difference. 

Pictures and info to follow. 

First up the ukdm ep91 gen2 inlet cam 

 

IMG_20200915_132956.thumb.jpg.026efca777433ef258e38a25fb40d26d.jpg

 

Next the 4efte JDM ep82 and ep91. Also the same as the 5efe ukdm paseo. 

 

IMG_20200915_133046.thumb.jpg.256783dad9c5acd143caf9e7934a8cbf.jpg

 

Next the Sera 5ehfe

 

DSC_0114.thumb.JPG.090a4197464965a2b22be673dc407e27.jpeg

Here is a popular video on cams. Notice how no measurement is given here. I will remove my 5efe paseo rocker cover and show the lift on the ukdm 4efe is different to the ukdm 5efe inlet cam. In the video the 4efe is said to be the same as the 5efe, now I don't know the age (year of engines compared) or if the different markets use different cams, all I can tell you is mine are different. 

Another thing to note is the Sera 5ehfe cams measured here have 2mm more lift not 1mm as shown on the 4efte and 5efe cams?.

Again could the cams have been mixed up in the video. 

The ukdm gen2 ep91 4efe inlet cam is very restrictive to higher rpm torque/power, you will notice a difference is 70 to 100 times if you use the 4efte/5efe inlet cam in the ukdm 4efe, because of the increase in higher rpm power/torque. It is best to use this cam with either the tubular corrola inlet or the gen1 4efe/4efte inlet. The standard ukdm ep91 inlet manifold is very restrictive. 

It is also good to note that the 4efe inlet cam does promote low rpm gas velocity this could come in very useful using a big turbo it will help spool the turbo up sooner. The same affect happens using either the corrola tubular inlet (promotes low rpm gas velocity against the 4efte inlet designed for peak volumes) and the gen1 4efe/4efte inlet. 

We did a 4efe on the td05 16g build using a 4efe inlet cam and the tubular inlet made for a amazing Street tune crazy torque with the turbo switching on at 3.7krpm. I might also add that this setup used a G6 c60 gearbox this gearbox will increase turbo lag with it reducing the load on the engine moving up the gears. A 5speed box will again increase load and reduce turbo lag (increase spool up time).

Also handy to improve time attack short courses. 

Some very good information and what we are seeing also. 

Inlet_Cams.jpg

 

Exhaust_Cams.jpg

 

 

Edited by Sam44
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3 hours ago, Sam44 said:

OnI've had alot of messages about cams. Mainly the different uk 4efe inlet cam and 5efe, 4efte inlet cam (these two are the same). Also the jdm 5ehfe cams which have more lift on the inlet and outlet cam.

It seems that this was relatively unknown territory until I started to talk about it. This is something I have been told about threw a comprohnsive starlet tuning book I've been handed from the previous owner. I've measured the cams and found that this guild is correct there is a difference. 

Pictures and info to follow. 

First up the ukdm ep91 gen2 inlet cam 

 

IMG_20200915_132956.thumb.jpg.026efca777433ef258e38a25fb40d26d.jpg

 

Next the 4efte JDM ep82 and ep91. Also the same as the 5efe ukdm paseo. 

 

IMG_20200915_133046.thumb.jpg.256783dad9c5acd143caf9e7934a8cbf.jpg

 

Next the Sera 5ehfe

 

DSC_0114.thumb.JPG.090a4197464965a2b22be673dc407e27.jpeg

Here is a popular video on cams. Notice how no measurement is given here. I will remove my 5efe paseo rocker cover and show the lift on the ukdm 4efe is different to the ukdm 5efe inlet cam. In the video the 4efe is said to be the same as the 5efe, now I don't know the age (year of engines compared) or if the different markets use different cams, all I can tell you is mine are different. 

Another thing to note is the Sera 5ehfe cams measured here have 2mm more lift not 1mm as shown on the 4efte and 5efe cams?.

Again could the cams have been mixed up in the video. 

The ukdm gen2 ep91 4efe inlet cam is very restrictive to higher rpm torque/power, you will notice a difference is 70 to 100 times if you use the 4efte/5efe inlet cam in the ukdm 4efe, because of the increase in higher rpm power/torque. It is best to use this cam with either the tubular corrola inlet or the gen1 4efe/4efte inlet. The standard ukdm ep91 inlet manifold is very restrictive. 

It is also good to note that the 4efe inlet cam does promote low rpm gas velocity this could come in very useful using a big turbo it will help spool the turbo up sooner. The same affect happens using either the corrola tubular inlet (promotes low rpm gas velocity against the 4efte inlet designed for peak volumes) and the gen1 4efe/4efte inlet. 

We did a 4efe on the td05 16g build using a 4efe inlet cam and the tubular inlet made for a amazing Street tune crazy torque with the turbo switching on at 3.7krpm. 

Also handy to improve time tack short courses. 

Exhaust cams coming soon. 

Thanks for the info, do you have the base circle dimensions for the cams so I can work out the actual lobe lift?

gen2 4efe = 40.7 - ??? = lobe lift

4efte & 5efe = 41.5 - ??? = lobe lift

5efhe = 42.4 - ??? = lobe lift (@trevstar?)

Would be nice to have the gen1 and gen3 4efe cam dimensions as well.

You never know, the gen1 4efe inlet cam may be the same as the 4efte and that may solve the riddle as to why people think they're the same!?

Also is there any info regarding the duration of each cam and overlap of these cams with their original exhaust partners or the 4efe exhaust cam for all? We know that generally speaking turbo cams have little to no overlap compared to N/A's which like some overlap up to a point. Would be interesting to see if the higher revving N/A cams had different duration / overlap to the low rpm N/A plodders torque monsters.

Or better still some dyno results before and after to show the results? At the end of the day, that's really all that matters.

I think it's really going to be a choice between gen2 4efe, gen3 4efe or the 4efte cam simply because of availability of parts nowadays.

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Yep all very good questions. the year and demestic markets are a ? In my head. 

I will do my best to get the info. I have a gen1 4efe ea101 engine here but not the gen3 corrola engine. 

I will get a degree wheel and dti on the go very soon. 

I will add Dyno results but it will more than likely be next year now. I have an ep82 MK2 that has the early 4efte engine, a ep91 cd and a paseo build on the go at present. I will update this topic with there Dyno graphs and setup. 

If you or anybody could check part numbers relating to these different engines would also be great to see. 

Edited by Sam44
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13 hours ago, Sam44 said:

Yep all very good questions. the year and demestic markets are a ? In my head. 

I will do my best to get the info. I have a gen1 4efe ea101 engine here but not the gen3 corrola engine. 

I will get a degree wheel and dti on the go very soon. 

I will add Dyno results but it will more than likely be next year now. I have an ep82 MK2 that has the early 4efte engine, a ep91 cd and a paseo build on the go at present. I will update this topic with there Dyno graphs and setup. 

If you or anybody could check part numbers relating to these different engines would also be great to see. 

 

13 hours ago, Claymore said:

Thanks for the info, do you have the base circle dimensions for the cams so I can work out the actual lobe lift?

gen2 4efe = 40.7 - ??? = lobe lift

4efte & 5efe = 41.5 - ??? = lobe lift

5efhe = 42.4 - ??? = lobe lift (@trevstar?)

Would be nice to have the gen1 and gen3 4efe cam dimensions as well.

You never know, the gen1 4efe inlet cam may be the same as the 4efte and that may solve the riddle as to why people think they're the same!?

Also is there any info regarding the duration of each cam and overlap of these cams with their original exhaust partners or the 4efe exhaust cam for all? We know that generally speaking turbo cams have little to no overlap compared to N/A's which like some overlap up to a point. Would be interesting to see if the higher revving N/A cams had different duration / overlap to the low rpm N/A plodders torque monsters.

Or better still some dyno results before and after to show the results? At the end of the day, that's really all that matters.

I think it's really going to be a choice between gen2 4efe, gen3 4efe or the 4efte cam simply because of availability of parts nowadays.

Found the 5efhe inlet cam base circle dimension from the pics Trevstar posted on your build thread.

1481311654_5efheinletbasecircle.jpg.7117df438e72aed6cda7c46f3117ef7c.jpg

gen2 4efe = 40.7 - ??? = lobe lift

4efte & 5efe = 41.5 - ??? = lobe lift

5efhe = 42.4 - 34.0 = 8.4mm lobe lift (thanks @trevstar)

If you can update this thread with the base circle dimensions for the 4efe and 4efte cam you measured above it will help people when trying to find them.

The concern that in the past these cams would have been swapped about between engines is a real one, so knowing the dimensions of the "small", "medium" and "high" lift cam dimensions is even more important. The more threads I read about this the more opinions there are! I've checked a few threads back over the years and there have been reports of three lift versions.

If you read the post from 2014 below by "motion" he also thinks there is a difference. It pretty much lines up with the above for base + lobe lift dimension. There aren't any base circle numbers quoted though so its not confirmation of any lobe lift difference either. He may have checked or not?

At the end of the day dimensions don't lie (unless the cam is worn 😨), so having the base + lobe, base, lobe lift dimensions will help greatly when purchasing. Might have to measure my 4efe cams when I change the spark plug tube seals in the cam cover. More examples people can measure the better. Maybe mine has the 4efte cam as well as the 4et crank 😆. It only has 42k miles on it so hopefully won't be worn.

Also if anyone has a dyno graph of a (EP91 UKDM) gen2 4efe with corolla intake manifold fitted and then a dyno graph after switching to the 4efte cam please add them to this thread. I feel this is the route most N/A guys would take as far as bolt-on / drop in tuning parts. Obviously piston to valve clearance will change too.

Edited by Claymore
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Also If you look at enzo's post on the last page from 2013 it looks like he found and measured the "small" and "medium" cams. Although the engines they came from may be wrong. Not sure about the info in the rest of the thread.

 

Edited by Claymore
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Big fan of enzo's 6speed na. What a machine. 

Yeh it's seems to have been touched upon by the elite lads. Missed by the masses. 

Keep them topics coming. Great research. 

I have been told the 98spec 4efte JDM ep91 run the lower lift gen2 4efe cams. Maybe certain items started to get discontinued and standardized at this point. 

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4 hours ago, Sam44 said:

I have been told the 98spec 4efte JDM ep91 run the lower lift gen2 4efe cams. Maybe certain items started to get discontinued and standardized at this point. 

Sounds feasible. 

Any news on the base circle dimensions of the cams you measured in the first post?

Edited by Claymore
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But surely you have the base circle dimensions already measured with a caliper otherwise you can't know the difference in lift? So why not post up the info? :unknw: 

------------------------------------------------

I'll use Enzo's dimensions from the second thread link as they're complete and virtually correlate with yours and the other threads:

 

gen2 4efe (small) = 40.85 - 34.05 = 6.8mm lobe lift 

4efte & 5efe (medium) = 41.6 - 34.05 = 7.55mm lobe lift 

5efhe (large) = 42.4 - 34.0 = 8.4mm lobe lift 

To be honest it looks like the factory base circle is around 34mm from all the threads I've researched but you still need to know the actual dimension for the one you're measuring to be certain.

I'll measure mine soon and post up the results.

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To be honest I think your right. Going off all the head specs I've looked at most engineering specs. I have no reason to think otherwise. Fruitless exercise. 

Lift and duration is how cams are measured my friend. This way I can also get a fix on the exhaust cams profile, which look to have no extra lift. 

Edited by Sam44
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