5EFTE Questions/Discussion

[The Toffinator]

Yeh i started on it last night, spent a few hours on the inlet and exhaust ports, massive amounts of shite casting/restriction in the exhaust side which i removed and polished off, 1 exhaust side valves path was good and straight, the other is absolutely shite and doesnt flow anywhere near as much by looking at it so i evened them out. Will get some photos up. And yeh theres loads of poor casting all over it, will be gone shortly!

And lol the pistons have arrived and they are indeed flat topped, have emailed alamo to see what the crack is. Only thing is they are custom pistons with a custom spec sheet, so they may well be 9.1 CR On a standard 5efe based on a standard gasket

Will soon see lol

Edited July 24, 2013 by The Toffinator

[AdamB]

Nice, are you going to get it on a flow bench?

Don't polish the inlet side though otherwise the fuel will just fall straight out the air, try and get it to swirl. If you have a flap wheel use something like a 180 grit for a final finish on the inlet side.

lol ah damn your gonna have a high comp motor. Let us know what they say, they might swap them for you, although bit of a pain to send the back.

[The Toffinator]

No dude i havent gone over the top on the porting side, more of a smoothing/restriction removing job! And yep exhaust side is quite smooth (Smoother than standard by a long way lol) But inlet is still rough. I only took a small amount of the inlet side just to match the gasket really and remove the small marks/casts.

And yeh im talking to him now. With them being custom Alamo specs on both the rods and pistons im unsure on what they base compression on! So will find out and update

[AdamB]

Nice, get some pics up when you can mate.

Ah I see, did you get the oil squirters in the rods in the end? I can't understand why they would send flat tops if they knew it was going to be a boosted engine?

[The Toffinator]

Pics are uploading now, will pop them in here when there done. And i dont think it has them, where are they usually on the rods? At the top under the pistons or on the bottom?

Here are the photos of the pistons and rods

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http://s280.photobucket.com/user/thetoffinator/media/20130724_202228_zps0f5eae49.jpg.html'>

http://s280.photobucket.com/user/thetoffinator/media/20130724_202429_zps50f82bab.jpg.html'>

And there definetely 9.1 He said. Custom made for Alamo.

This is the message he sent

These numbers are based on the stock block and stock gasket.

If you have decked the block or the head it will increase the CR and if you run a thicker gasket it will lower the CR.
9:1 pistons will be great for car running lower amounts of depending on how good the gas is over there.

So he means its based on a bog standard 5EFE Thats being boosted, Is the standard gasket 1mm? I will probably fit a 1.2 or possibly 1.4 and keep it slightly higher compression.

Edited July 24, 2013 by The Toffinator

[AdamB]

Them rods haven't got any oil jets mate, they are normally situated on the big end. Something like this :

http://s164.photobucket.com/user/BoobZ18/media/M_rod_oil_squirter_zps9d57e088.jpg.html'>

Flat as a pancake mate lol.

Hmm that's the American way, that's what they all do over there, run stupid high CR levels and low boost. The stock gasket is 1mm. I would be looking to do a little work on the combustion chamber of the head mate, maybe increase the volume to around 43-44cc as opposed to stock of 38cc, this will drop the CR to around 9.35:1 with a 1.4mm gasket.

[The Toffinator]

What is that small hole then on the big end in the bottom photo?

And yeh they seem to do that a lot

He said there definitely 9.1 Compression ratio though???

[AdamB]

That small hole is the oil jet, built into the rod.

The pistons are only part of the equation though mate, it's all to do with volumes. So with the flat tops your CR will be 10.62:1 with a 1.4mm gasket and stock combustion chamber.

[The Toffinator]

Ahh so it does have one then, the other rods i have seen dont have this? Or do they?

And yeh i know what you mean but standard domed pistons in a 5e dont equal that high a compression ratio so why would these flat ones?

They arent a 4e based piston, they are both designed purely for 5e use.

[AdamB]

I've never seen an off the shelf rod with these, only Carillo offer them as a custom order.

The stock CR of the 5EFE was 9.4:1 and the FHE was 9.8:1, I believe the dome shape is raised into the chamber to change the CR. I haven't had my engine apart yet so not sure. But checking here seem's like they do by a few mm. So all they have done is just removed the raised dome to make it a flat top.

http://www.tercelreference.com/tercel_info/component_library/engine_components.html#pistons

[The Toffinator]

Oh well then, still dont get why that hole is there in the rod then lol

And yeh so it must work out at 9.1, with them being domed they are 9.4.1 so with them being custom flat tops it works out at 9.1

Ideal!

And another question, the standard crank pully on the 5efe will be a NON harmonic one will it not?

Will i gain anything from fitting the harmonic damper off my 4efte onto it or not?

[AdamB]

That's what I can gather mate, would assume it's that way but don't know how far the stock piston dome protrudes into the chamber so can't work it out. If you deck your block you can get the same result Although the CR is high enough as it is lol.

I'm not sure if the N/A use harmonic damper pulleys, but I know for sure the FTE does. I would swap it just to be safe. You'll find your thrust bearings live a lot longer with a harmonic pulley.

Edited July 25, 2013 by AdamB

[The Toffinator]

Yeh its not far i can measure it if you like

And lol yeh should be nice at 9.1, was panicking for a bit there thinking it would be wayy to high, glad its not

This is what he has sent me

Hi,

Nothing to worry about 9:1 is a great compression ratio.
The 4e/5e have big chambers in the head so even with the flat top pistons they keep a low cr.
If you wanted to lower the CR I would run the 1.4 or 1.6mm gasket to get you in the mid to high 8's

Thanks

So that gives me a few options now!

And yeh i will probably swap the pulley over if it isnt a harmonic one

[AdamB]

Would be interesting to know mate

9:1 will be good, be interesting to see how much boost it can take though, as long as you can get the turbo operating at its most efficient it will go extremely well.

Your going to need to get the chamber to a volume of 46cc if you want to run a bang on 9:1 ratio mate with a 1.4mm gasket, if you choose the 1.6mm gasket you'll need 45.8cc. If your going to go for larger than 1.6mm I would personally opt to get the block O-ringed.

That give's you a target to work on for your head now

Edited July 25, 2013 by AdamB

[The Toffinator]

Whats Alamo based the compression ratio on then do you think?

I spoke to him again last night to clarify it and he said if its all being fitted to a standard 5EFE with a 1.0mm gasket it will be 9.1, and a thicker gasket would take it into the 8s?

And is there a lot to take off out of the head to take it to this sort of ratio?

Thanks

[AdamB]

No idea mate, maybe they haven't got the chamber size correct, maybe they are thinking its larger than it actually is. I've read countless times its 38cc, some even down to 37cc with a skim. So I think its best to measure it with a burette to find out exactly what it is at then you can be sure on how much material you need to take off.

I reckon you should be able to get to around 41-42cc quite easily, but have to be careful not to grind into any waterways.

Life's so much easier with dished pistons

Edited July 26, 2013 by AdamB

[The Toffinator]

Hmm i will message him and see im confused now haha

[AdamB]

Ask him what volume he gets with the 5EFE combustion chamber.

[The Toffinator]

Just asked him again and he said Definetely 9.1 compression on a stock block with a 1.0mm headgasket.

Makes sense though if the engine is 9.4 As standard with the Domed pistons, surely with flat tops 9.1 will be what it will take it too?

Would go well at 10,1 Lol!

[AdamB]

Yeah but would depend what volume he gets from the chambers. Does make sense but your CR is still high, that's why I think they may have the chamber volumes wrong. I did read somewhere that there's a 3cc difference between 4E and 5E heads, but obviously when porting this doesn't matter anyway.

[The Toffinator]

Yeh true, there is possibly a difference as the chambers are massive..

And just gonna go for a 1.4mm gasket with the porting as well.

Should make it high 8s possibly!

[AdamB]

Let us know how you get on mate, I think you'll find it hard to get it that low though.

[The Toffinator]

Let us know how you get on mate, I think you'll find it hard to get it that low though.

Yeh i will get back to you on it dude, just messaged him to see what specs he gets that compression ratio off so will see what he says

Thanks

[The Toffinator]

Right another question now, Regarding timing

I know most people use The 4E Marks (Especially when running lower compression) But do i want to use the 5E or 4E marks??

Thanks

[AdamB]

Dial them in using a DTI gauge, don't waste everything you've done by using the stock marks as they are pretty useless and can still be as much as 2 degrees out either way, which will cost power. If you dial them in they will be neutral, then your tuner can use an adjustable cam pulley to alter the valve timing to suit the map.This is where the E series is let down though as its not a true twin cam design

Am sure I've given you the cam specs before haven't I?

Edited August 17, 2013 by AdamB