110 - 120 bhp n/a please

[starlet ryan]

i am planning a 5efe conversion and was wondering what would be the best way to obtain 110 - 120 bhp from the engine. and since no one seams to have found a way of using the 5efe ecu in the sr what are my options on aftermarket ecus?

[SiCaln]

could easily strap on OBX or pref Pacesetter exhaust mani/header that should help u find some ponies and a decent exhaust on the end of it

[Rich]

I would of thought Joz was on his way there already...

[Jozinobi]

Its each to their own how one wants to go about tuning your 1.5cc engine.

I can give you some pointers tho.

First things first is finding a decent example 5efe, this is not as easy as it sounds.

The majority are either high mileage or burning oil, so you will be very lucky to find a good un.

Once you do that, the engine is pretty much a straight swap. You will need to retain your 4efe throttle body due to it using your 4efe loom. Other issues are small and they are the retaining a sensor or two, one by the dizzycap and the other I cant recall. You dont need to touch the brake cylinders or brake fluid reservoirs, they can stay.

The exhaust manifolds mentioned by SiCaln will dramaticallly change how your car drives with the 4-2-1 design moving maximum power and torque further up the rev range so you will lose the starlet n/a's useful low end torque but great for spirited driving where you always keep the revs high. The pacesetter seems the best bet with the 5efe and can be easily bought off ebay. It will however need at least a 2" diameter custom or aftermarket exhaust system to mate up to, it wont have a hope of fitting onto the standard system and would be pointless and as its intended for the US Paseo it would still need some adjustment and modification to fit properly regardless of the fact its for the 5efe. So take in the factors that you will need an aftermarket or custom exhaust and also labour needed to make the manifold fit properly.

The JDM systems such as Blitz etc you would need to make sure what diameter it is, I would go one of these ahead of a powerflow etc, Im only using powerflow as I had no choice at the time. Money would be better spent on something decent off the bat.

With that sort of setup you would have a pretty responsive starlet with downshifts punchy and smooth but 110 odd bhp is still not enough to rival todays hot hatches, not one bit as well as the 5efe being the lowest revving E-Series engine out there with 5800rpm, if using 4efe ecu then 6200rpm. Do not forget that brakes and suspension will be against you if you are thinking of staying standard, it just wont work as well. Hence I left power til the end of my project with evil intentions.There are certainly other forms of engine management you could use for the N/A but they come at much expense.

Notably the Dastek Unichip, and the popular Emanage piggyback series by Greddy and Apexi FC's which are all piggyback systems meaning they serve to alter your ecu's signals with certain aspects and hence are not full EMS (engine management systems). To ecu tune a stock or mild 5efe would be pointless but possible. Other more expensive engine management systems you should stay away from such as Motec, HKS PF-CON etc which are full EMS as they are only worth it for bigger engines or turbo apps and are very expensive to setup and tune as well as the units themselves.

Im custom rebuilding my 5efe for performance reasons with aftermarket engine management soon but all will be revealed only when it all goes ahead which it indeed will. There is so little info as there are only a handful of serious EP n/a tuners out there who are in it for the driving experience, most who have never gone to the point of aftermarket engine management, I know Faisal Sol has the Daskek unichip in his Glanza Rep so if you want more info on that kindly ask him.

Im sorry I cant be of more help Ryan but for uniqueness sake thats all the info I can give sadly until its all said and done. I will update according in my progress thread. And Riko dont suggest THEM... yet lol

Joz

[Jozinobi]

Here's some info on aftermarket ecus from an earlier thread, its better laid out.

ECU Info

Joz

[rmsnoel]

You can use the 5efe ECU you just havn't figured it out get. Try and see, some starlets are happy to take a new ECU and the others have to be tricked. Get ECU, key transponder box connected to the black ring around the igination barrel and the TVSS alarm system box behind glovebox. Its usually cable tied up under the dask behind passenger side air vent on paseo's. AND THE KEY!!!

You can then get a new key cut to fit your car but when the dude is programing the chip inside get him to copy the chip in the paseo's key. Does that make sense?

[Guest Enzo]

yea it does noel

hey ryan, ading to what other people have said, to get the most our of the engine you could have a f*ck about with some reprofiled cams maybe, i know piper do a reprofiling service for about £200

also with whatever management you use you could riase the revlimit to 7200 with the use of some stronger valve springs.

addressing these little areas will change the charicteristics of your car aswell as increasing performance.

[StarletRick]

if you get some better crank and big end bolts. you can easily rev the 5e to 9,000 rpm.

if you get the compression right, some nice cams and have a good ecu running it. there is no reason why a good 150-160 hp isnt achievable.

but youll be spending some money on it that would be better spent on a 4efte swap.

[kroozin]

sorry for bumping old threads, but if you look in this months banzi mag, there are 2 250bhp n/a tuned honda's. a civic and crx. Basicaly get your car realy like, bore it out, get everything running smoothly. I read that if your crank picks up to much oil it will drag you down 4bhp, and there are some plates you can buy for the evo engine that stops this, maybe try somthing like that in the starlet. I think its all about using your noggin, and see how other engines binerfit from n/a tuning. Look at how people tune the 4age, 4agze, black/silver top 20v's, honda engine, K and D series.

[Rich]

Theres not much point comparing the K series to anything , 4a-ge has got to be the best engine toyota has ever made, it stayed in production for 20+ years, 4A-GZE is supercharged and the D series is a rover engine but still tunable most people turbo them.

Oh and like Rick said, no reason why you couldn't get fairly decent power out of the 4e or 5e.

Corrolla Manifold,

CAI

Decent Exhaust 4-2-1 Decat 2" bore (or less)

Cams Slightly high lift and duration

Port and Polished Head

Decent ECU with a good map

Higher Rev Limit (6200 is shit, ask JAG or his bro )

Thinner Head Gasket or skimmed head so CR is around 10:1 is 9.6:1 standard

Decent Ignition Timming

You probably could sacrifice some torque for BHP in these cars as they are so light too much torque would just spin up the wheels so isn't much of an issue.

[kroozin]

would there be a way to use ecu for ignition timing as apose to the dizzy ?

[Rich]

Coil packs off of Glanza S or Emanage with ignition harness

[kroozin]

is it hard to do ?

[Rich]

Short answer... Yes...

Long answer you'll prob need to see a professional

[kroozin]

thats a bummer. coilpacks, loom and a new ecu ;) i'm wanting to build a n/a spec 4efe, i think it would be insane

[Rich]

To say I am in two minds of what route I want to take is an understatement...

4e-fte swap (Need to wait for insurance to calm down)

5e-fe swap (Need to find a decent low milage engine)

4a-ge swap (Black top or 16v and a lot more work)

Or mod 4e-fe engine ;)

[StarletRick]

2JZ mate. easy swap innit.

[SiCaln]

hmm not convinced ;)

[Rich]

2JZ no shit, will decimate all with over night parts from Japan, should have gone MIT or Summin' innit! ;)

[nic1.3]

To say I am in two minds of what route I want to take is an understatement...

4e-fte swap (Need to wait for insurance to calm down)

5e-fe swap (Need to find a decent low milage engine)

4a-ge swap (Black top or 16v and a lot more work)

Or mod 4e-fe engine ;)

my opinion mate

get a gud low milage 5e and build that up to a very high standard and spec....

best things bout the 5e is

its a decent engine with gud mods so u wont have to worry bout turbo'ing it rite away

also your doing sumthing different then dropping in a 4efte...

[Guest Enzo]

yea ^^ its such a piss easy swap

before paseo pimp closed down(prodominant paseo 5e-fe site)

alot of guys were getting 140-145bhp with bolt on mods?

[kroozin]

how about trying to fit a honda engine with the vtec in it, so you can get loadss more powahhhhsssss. or if that fails could try a 5e imported from japan.

[nic1.3]

how about trying to fit a honda engine with the vtec in it, so you can get loadss more powahhhhsssss. or if that fails could try a 5e imported from japan.

is it even possible to fit a honda B16b engine (civic type R Vtec engine)in a starlet or even more to the point why?? ;)

honestly i wouldnt see the point of sticking a honda engine in a toyota starlet... BUY a honda civic

it would take:

mega money just to install the motor if even possible.

an entirely new set of electronics to run everything.

best to go the 5e route imo

cheaper...

and a lot less painfull

[Rich]

Wow that Honda talk killed this thread

5e is what I will be going for soonish as you need to change 3 things 2 sensors and exhaust...