Sam44

I've been reading about ignition retard. I can't use that method using the na I'm trying to reduce cylinder temps and egt as much as I can, fuel cut for me on a batch firing indirect efi system I would never recomend. asking for det and high combustion temps. 

exhaust popping antilag will upset the neighbours. 

So here's the design so far (the pre turbo throttle and fuel stand off valve for the pressure reg I've got out of this book I've acquired) 

Design and use a electronic controlled pre turbo throttle to help gas velocities/volumes going into the turbo, this will also close out of spool to generate a vacume/negative pressure acting on the compressor wheel removing load and helping overcome anertia lag. This opens progressively to maintain minimum loading and help promote gas speeds. 

Use a fuel pressure stand off valve like used on the celica and mr2 3sge and 3sgte systems this holds off the fuel pressure raise on the mechanical regulator. This allows the ecu to better more accurately get the fueling for throttle on right because the fuel pressure is stable helping spool time and response. 

Use a baileys bucket bov valve positioned in the intercooler pipe as close to the throttle body as possible but after the power box installed. The bov valve will remain fully open until the turbo produces positive pressure. Also electricaly controlled. 

I'll put up before and after graphs of the system and it should be easy to see the bemafits on the td04l/hl hyb. Turbo pressure build very smooth but highly capable of big hp

Does any body use or know of any anti lag options. 

I came across this 

Turbo and intercooler bypass (D-valve)Edit

A method by which a large one-way check valve is inserted just prior to the throttle body, enabling air to bypass the turbo, intercooler, and piping during periods where there is negative air pressure at the throttle body inlet. This results in more air combusting, which means more air driving the turbine side of the turbo. As soon as positive pressure is reached in the intercooler hosing, the valve closes.

Sometimes referred to as the Dan Culkin valve.

When used in a MAF configuration, the D-valve should draw air through the MAF to maintain proper A/F ratios. This is not necessary in a speed-density configuration.

I was thinking about using a electronically control Air valve to close my dump valve as soon as turbo pressure is produced. 

Im also piping this control valve to the fse fuel reg so as to hold off fuel pressure raise untill boost starts like on the 3sgte system. I've also recently seen alot of fuel parameters on maps altered to run leaner at this point to promote turbo switch on. Which I think engine load and gearing is the dangerous gamble here. 

I think the power delivered by the masive Td05 20g turbo now on the car is more than anuff to replace any lost topend the cam lost, it's spooling starting from 3krpm on full at 4krpm near anuff in the 4efe peak cam flow rate window. Can you imagine.  Edited 4/04/2022, and there's still more to come from this now using this turbo. 

Here's the ask. Just off the top of your head as I can see your a lad of knowledge.

1) I'm wanting a mitsubishi turbo or garret equivalent for a 4efe 1300cc high compression ratio engine to produce around 190 to 220hp before 5.5k rpm because I'm 40 years of age and don't want to look foolish redlining my car on public roads. 

  2) I'm also wanting best possible mpg threw experience this requires good engine power and gearing with boost to hit after cruz rpm so around 3.2k rpm

4) money is tight because I have kids so cheapest option here were I can get turbo kits at a premium price. 

5) last I need to be able to have a wide range of option on the turbo so as to finally tune it and avoid surges in power and be able to reduce egt. 

The na inlet cam suits my required rpm power helping kick off the the head gas speeds very low in the rev range. The head is ported for torque also (gas speed) and not peak hp. If I was to go on track I would use the turbo cam and 4efte inlet and throttle. 

I've never seen a a graph for the turbo I'm running. it's a little bit more than that with a high compression na engine. The profile of the inlet cam combined with the inlet and exhaust manifold gas speeds/volumes. You can really tailor a great engine torque curve starting from very low rpm. This will help spool a biggish turbo giving great mpg and easy to drive speed/power keeping the need to access topend rpm power at a minimum. The exhaust turbine/port does a great job of lowering egt and back pressure holding on that power till the end and allowing higher pressures to be used on the 4efe. I tend to do for feel and dyno graphs over compressor maps. Unless I've got no experience with make model of turbo. Another problem is the power delivery if it hits to fast it will bend a rod. The turbo I'm running at present has very smooth but big power levels making it hard to tell when the turbo is actually turning on. It's both very controllable and reliable which I want for the road. I know with this turbo I'm not going to. Choke it but I do worry about surge 

Keep them setups and graphs coming please Tdo4 hyb and setups. I'm hoping to order my parts ASAP. 

What I'm reading the blitz and apexi and 1 of the best systems. 

What exhaust manifold and waste gate are you running. 

10 minutes ago, akyakapotter said:

Standard glanza inlet bud no need for a fancy one at my bhp. my build is a forged 4efte not that there is much difference between the 4efe bar the head and a few other bits. 

I think the inlet cam is different on the 4efe better low rpm power flow rates. This is running the 5efe inlet and zisso exhaust manifold extrnaly gated,. All about high low rpm flow rates getting things spooling and pulling. I was told somthing about a Rolla inlet to help low rpm flow even more. 

What exhaust setup do you have. 

Many thanks 

Beauty, thanks alot. 

Waw great power build there. And holds the torque on till the end. Very nice. 

The lad that had it only ran as low as a 15t 11 blade billet and swapped it for a 6+6 billet compressor wheel. So he was not sure if I should use a 13t 11blade which switch on fast and surge power but can flatten out near top end or the 7+7 blade which will build power to peak but switch on slow. 

Can I ask what inlet and exhaust you are running. 

He also mentioned a roll inlet on a 7+7 blade or somthing. 

Picture Bellow : 4efe dyno graph borrowed off 1 of the great ep91 builds on here. I've put it here close to this turbo dyno graph above for points of reference on the torque curve mainly (cams, inlet reference). 

This 4efe has a corrola inlet (rolla),  induction cone filter, with standard cams. 

You can clearly see this is running a different cam setup then on the 4efte engine. The torque drop off is fast and hard.  Starting around 4.5krpm and no amount of exhaust or intake flow improvements will help. Making 100hp near impossible to reach making the 93 to 96hp I've seen on some 4efe on here very very impressive. Best option fit 4efte inlet cam then tune the rest. 

I'm certain if the setup was to see a 4efte inlet cam, and prethrottle body induction power box installed he would make around 100hp and have alot more topend pull torque winning races. 

Quick question. 

My turbo is a Tdo4 15t 6+6 blade billet compressor side and tdo4hl 9 blade turbine and port. 

It's designed for the high compression 4efe engine to run higher boost on track and provide good high rpm torque. 

As the car is now not track fit and I'm only running it on the road I'm thinking to replace the 15t compressor and wheel for a 13t billet 11 blade to improve low to mid range rpm power. Has anyone run a 11 blade 13t and have a graph. 

I'm wanting to keep rpm capped at 5.5k and keep turbo surge to a minimum for reliability on the stock 4efe heavy pistons and slim rods. 

Hello there.

Lots of good information in here 

 I'm also taking taking note of this Rob thanks. And about the ep82 question I don't know I'm very new to this vehicle but learning fast. 

29 minutes ago, Sam44 said:

These are some of the wiring diagrams in here. This is a ep82 4efte ecu on a ep91 UK convertion diagram and additional loom needed to fit the external coil and 4efte dizzy. There is so much in this book and all starlet tuning related.  

It goes on to explain turbo pressure and spark plugs required and after 1bar it's best to run standard tip spark plugs with a higher kv output coil a 50kv c4 coil was fitted here and larger plug gaps. Helped achive a 20% power increase. 

 

 

 

These are some of the wiring diagrams in here. This is a ep82 4efte ecu on a ep91 UK convertion diagram and additional loom needed to fit the external coil and 4efte dizzy. There is so much in this book and all starlet tuning related.  

It goes on to explain turbo pressure and spark plugs required and after 1bar it's best to run standard tip spark plugs with a higher kv output coil a 50kv c4 coil was fitted here and larger plug gaps. 

As soon as I'm home I'll put it on. 

There is all sorts of information in there. 

I might be able to help here. I've just bought a starlet ep91 UK that was a crazy spec turbo convertion the lad I got it off gave me his build journal and in it there is a wiring diagram to convert a UK ep91 to run on a 4efte jdm ecu. 

There's alot of pride in your work. I've found a 5efe block and crank near me 150quid. Looking at the engines torque levels I can only imagine how it will feel. And from what I'm reading don't suffer from cracked crank  main caps like the 4efte/4efe. 

Looks great. I take it you attend alot of the shows and meets. 

It's very apparent the difference in power levels between the 2 engines. 

I was just reading about this engines stronger and the torque output on the dyno graphs are Really nice.

I'm also very interested in this engine. How long have you been building this 1. Such attention to detail. 

Thanks all for the welcome. 

Not to sure. Its only running low turbo pressure at the minute. I need a few parts I've been told before I can increase it. It's around the 130hp I've been told. But it goes like stink and very good fuel economy.

The engine rev range is full of torque very impressed. I'm thinking more power around 180 to 220hp. 

clean here up lots of handing mods because at present it's all over the place in the corners and get her tidy. 

Thanks. 

I'm thinking I'm going to have to clean the starlet up and get her painted first Job. After looking at how tidy all of you lads keep your motors. 

Very impressed. I've jotted down some of the part mentioned here. 

Thanks 

I'm reading as much as I can. It's Crazy what these little things can achieve. Mind is blown. 

It's standard ecu on a aem piggy back. I've Not long had it. I got it like this alot was taken off. I've got the current spec here incase I needed parts. Quite pleased with her. 

The starlet so far (starlet turbo conversion)

Model :- UK CD

Engine :- UK 4EFE 1.3ltr

Engine part's required for turbo conversation:

4efte exhaust manifold, oil filter relocation housing and big center bolt and washer. 4efte, sump later ep91 4efte the best option low corner surge + matching oil pick up pipe/strainer, turbo with all turbo lines (coolant and oil), 4efte map sensor 2bar+ denso sensor, 4efte ep91 or ep82 exhaust system and down pipe (decat pipe). 4efte thermostat housing, 4efte flywheel and 212mm clutch or 200mm uprated 4efe unit, 4efte power steering pump with bottom pump to block mounting bracket and bolts, both low pressure pipe from the power steering reservoir and high pressure pipe from the pump to the steering rack 4efte, 4efte rocker cover, heat range 6 spark plugs 4efte. 4efte gray injectors 295cc will see around 220hp, piggy back ems. Intercooler and piping (4efte top mounted intercooler requires the factory bonnet scoop). Air filter housing and piping to turbo with the boost recerculation valve and piping/ aftermarket air filter and piping from the turbo & bov valve. 

THIS IS NOT MY STARLET IN THE CLIP BELLOW ITS A FANTASTIC GUILD/WALK THREW. 

there is also this option: this lad has many great 4efe tuning clips give him a follow/subscribe

my cars spec bellow. 

Spec list: Turbo td04l 13t billet alloy 11blade compressor wheel race spec much larger exducer diameter, ITG air filter, td04l 9blade aftermarket turbine, tdo5 antisurge compressor housing, heavily ported td04l exhaust housing/shell(hyb), ported head, uprated valve springs, 4efte inlet cam (higher lift), corrola e11 tubular 4efe inlet manifold modified, modified water pump (closed back impeller design), Kevlar cam belt & alloy adjustable top pully, high flow fuel rail, under chassis fuel cooler, high flow fuel filter, 372cc light green denso injectors (3sge,) fse raising rate fuel reg, kemso 340lph fuel pump + 255 original walbro (intank), relocated larger capacity battery, fedanza alloy flywheel, acl big end shells, 76 deg paseo thermostat. Zisco exhaust manifold, Audi 80 sport twin throttle body, externally gated tail gate, silly big front mounted intercooler, electronic boost controller, C4 64kv external coil, E3 plugs heat range 6, race ht leads, engine earthing kit, Jap speed modified exhaust system with high flow cat. Aem piggy back. HKS early type bov, windage tray and baffled sump. The engine has been hand finished removing all sharp machined edges as well as polished internal friction surfaces reworked standard rods. 

Transmission :- reconditioned close ratio 6speed C60 g6r corrola manual 4+:1 final drive, cusco LSD. 3 puk light weight 200mm clutch. Ceramic bead hardened/polished internals, welded on shaft circlips. 

Suspention:- fully Polly bushed front and rear, vw modified coilovers, adjustable panard bar, rear axle roll bar, modified rear axle.

Brakes:- vented discs on yellow stuff pads, front to rear adjustable bias valve x2

Other bits fitted

2x exhaust temp sensors/gauges run threw the aem data logger. 

Aem Wide band gauge

AEM G meter vehicle dynamics module GPS 

Glanza v rear spoiler 

Glanza v side skirts 

Exhaust temp gauge 

Glanza v rear bumper + bottom optional lip. 

Exhaust bung (exhaust sounds to jdm for little old ukdm me)

My design:- fast street car reaching for the best 0 to 60/100mph range and maximum reliability and mpg plus lower maintanence cost. I'm aiming for Equal hp to torque output and an almost table top shape torque graph starting from very low rpm to around 6krpm. This will allow constant speed build. 230hp my target. I'm hoping to stay 1.3ltr 4efe engine as this will accept that hp better easier it's just the torque levels that are a challenge. The high compression engine also bringing afficency and carbon reduction. Dual fuel lng, cng also to come helping reach hp target and 40+mpg target also running a hybrid drive system for low engine rpm torque aid and reduced engine emissions. 

 It is possible to generate energy in a small gas turbine and couple the gas turbine with a small electric battery/dynamo to create a hybrid electric motor driven vehicle. Another option here would be a steam turbine and flywheel (rotating mass).

https://www.borntoengineer.com/delta-mitre-micro-turbine-offers-huge-range-boost-electric-vehicles/

EDIT: 4-1-2020

after the great results (engine torque around the 5sec to 60mph mark) from the engine and gearbox combo as well as the vehicles weight, I've decided a hybrid drive is really not needed. What is needed (discovered by analysing exhaust emissions) is either a better combustion chamber design or much improved squish areas/port work to improve cylinder mixing. 

So I'm going to introduce lpg to run along side of petrol. This will give a better more complete burn in the cylinder also allowing me to run a very lean high pressure petrol mix. Hoping to hit over 45mpg at 200hp/200ftlds of torque. This will aline the starlet with modern day sport car figures/tech and also reduce fuel costs by a third. 

The other option is fuel mix with high priced fuels/adatives. So lpg is the rout I'm going. This will also increase the octane level of the fuel.

After the first round of mods. 

Reconed, refined ceramic bead polished Cusco 1.5 lsd c60 g6r gearbox, different tdo4l hyb turbo. New 3 puk 200mm low anertia clutch. Relocated/refined map sensor + alot more. 

As we developed the inlet to improve turbo spool on the td04l hyb, and low-end engine power, working together with the 4efe high compression engine, higher lift 4efte inlet cam, td04l hyb and close ratio box, mega setup, absolutely loving it. Around 200hp/200ftlbs going off the fueling, gearing, weight, and times to target speed. 

I'm Very impressived with this setup outstanding power to weight, fantastic torque and hp to around 5krpm at this point the pulling power starts to flatten out, the speed impact is noticeable after 5krpm, time to work on this area. 

Hello all. I'm Sam from Fleetwood I'm 40 and work as a design engineer.

I've recently started a starlet project after coming across very cheap proformance parts for the 4e engine.