lol thanks Lewis mate. i had a head start for a couple of reasons that i cant really go into over the net, security in NI and all that jazz, tho u can feel free to msg me if your that intrigued man. My driving will never be as good as my dad but i can try, I've found since the test i have...slacked off into bad habits tho this is somewhat expected. I wouldnt say im a hell of a driver, i have no doubt that there are people out there who can go round corners quicker than me and who spot and hit the apex properly everytime, and indeed there are other means of cornering faster than using limit points, but as a civilian there is no higher standard that can be achieved which is a real shame and very frustrating to me because i would like to go alot higher but cant as a civi. one of my good mate's new gf is a rally driver in her spare time, i have no doubt at all that she could teach me ALOT and i have no shame sayin that just because she's a girl. wot i have been trained from my very first lesson with a somewhat more...qualified...driving instructor is to be aware of EVERYTHING that is goin on from as far ahead as u can see infront to as far behind as u can possibly see, this gives u the time necessary to see, evaluate and adjust accordingly to whatever may be happening. its all in the observation! wots the most common word used to police at the scene of an accident?? that something happened "Suddenly". if you're payin attention and thinking about wot could possibly happen there is VERY LITTLE that can occur 'suddenly'. theres the key mate! Rob and Liam, its defo worth while, it takes VERY little time to do and if u have passed your standard driving test with no problems then it will pose u no problems at all, it simply polishes your driving further, again same as the standard test, the point is to learn to drive for the test, after which u go back to havin one arm on the window ledge, but hopefully u continue with some of your new better habits too. Phil.