thanks again guys, i managed to get locked into that second place, the off site secuity closed the gate from a Control room up north and watched me on CCTV incase i was going to start acting like a prat and doing dohnuts! :angry: obviously they saw what i was doing and when i rang the number on the gate they were fine with it, just said that locking the gates was a security measure! yeah i'm from around that area Riko, there are loads of good locations around here, but that's one of the few decent night spots without orange light or a crappy backdrop. discovered i have the balance of a cat standing on one of them bollards in the freezing cold with my hands in the air trying to hold still for a good shot