goldenvtr Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) just finished a fresh 5e buid after having my car engineless for abour 4 years and sods law theres a problem :| basically i was looking for a few other opinions on what it could be i suspect valve noise but cant pinpoint this... ive measured the clearances and although there not perfect surly they shouldn't cause this kinda noise?? 0.15mm is inlet shim clearance spec (+.0.03mm) and biggest to smallest is 0.22 and 0.250.25 is exhuast spec and biggest to smallest is 0.22 -0.29so i deffo need a reshim (something i neglected to concider when i lapped the valves)(need to confrim specs as 5e manual says 0.2 in and 0.3 ex? or am i missing somthing? in a nutshell:forged 5e pauter rods, weisco -10cc pistons0.5mm headgaskethead and block skimed/decked 0.2mm and 0.4mmlapped vales, new stem seals compression ratio should be close to 9:1i have 195psi bang on compression on all 4 cylnders when hot note, the 5e came out of a running paseo i owned so i know it was perfect before all the work >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed_2Ra-ceOE EDIT:after a quick (test) by putting petrolium jelly under each bucket to see how it affected the noise... read further down for more info>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY02t2sU5VQ Edited February 19, 2017 by goldenvtr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akyakapotter Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 leaking gasket ? sanwhich plate catching the flywheel ? cheers nick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
goldenvtr Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 leaking gasket ? sanwhich plate catching the flywheel ? cheers nick. hmm gaskets all new and good, the video numbs the sound sumwhat, its more like a metalic tapping/knocking noise, its there at all revs. the sandwich plate to the flywheel is good too, ive experianced that in the past though haha one thing i missed out in the description was if i put a screwdrver to the dizzy and my ear the other end(stethoscope style) i can feel small knocking but maybe this is normal lol? also if i pull each lead out 1 at atime there noise dosn't deteriorate, ruling out bearings Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 open the rocker and start reshimming did you make a spec sheet will doing so ?? would of bean handy to correct any new chimming also the noise will quieten after a good amount of miles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TimD Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Does the block need notching for the rods? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
goldenvtr Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) open the rocker and start reshimming did you make a spec sheet will doing so ?? would of bean handy to correct any new chimming also the noise will quieten after a good amount of miles thats next on the list once i get the proper tool (dont want to remove cams and belts etc) unfortunatly i didnt take mesurments of the shims on assembly, because it was fine before all i did was new stem seals and lapped the valve(first time i ever done this and i neglected to think that this would affect clearances do to material removed however minor it was) i have just made a list of all the current clearances though so when i remove the shims i can mesure+calculate the right ones is valve noise normal on a rebuild until run in? ive only done 2/3 miles as i didnt want to damage it, and as ive got 2 other project cars i was planning on using the starlet for track only once run in Does the block need notching for the rods? yup, to which i did with lots of extra room Edited February 16, 2017 by goldenvtr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ollieh17 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 What clutch? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
goldenvtr Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 What clutch? same as previous engine, still has some life... ACT extreme 4puk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ollieh17 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Same flywheel? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 i suggest not to drive like that till its sounds a lot less then that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
goldenvtr Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 yup same flywheel... car is jsut left in the garage now untill i get some more time, not like it been used for 4 years anyway whats a few more days/months haha im going to boroscope down the plug holesto make sure im not gettin piston to valve contact due to my new madish spec,reshim will be needed anyway so going to do that, then ill fire up if all good and see if noise has gone.if not im suspecting it spun a bearing on initial startup but i used plenty of lub on the bearings. closest video i have found is: and this is the spec of the build:74.5mm bore75mm headgasket39cc original combustion chamber (but head has skim as per above)87mm rod strokeblock decked by 2mmpistons deck clearance is 0-10cc pistons0.5mm head gasket (metal no additional squash) should be 9.1ish CR but i can say that its now an interference engine if the belt was to snap, when setting the timing/fitting the belt i discovered this heres a similar sounding videoi foundon youtube:>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-AKcs0q6II&index=2&list=FLo3b3J2mSf0S4Lg2zSq0wUg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gorganl2000 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) by any chance did you put a "service" bolt in the intake cam gear before you removed it? normally with these type of builds where a thinner gasket is used and/or head/block skimming is done, its usually best to turn the engine by hand after reassembly just to make sure nothing is touching http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/forums/showthread.php?101103-what-s-minimum-space-between-piston-and-head http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/forums/showthread.php?97661-Non-interference-engine-proof&highlight=valve+clearance very interesting reading Edited February 17, 2017 by gorganl2000 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PaddyDoyle Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Have this exact noise although not as loud in another OEM rebuilt 5e. Valves were re-shimmed to spec and still have the noise. At a loss Quote Link to post Share on other sites
goldenvtr Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 by any chance did you put a "service" bolt in the intake cam gear before you removed it? normally with these type of builds where a thinner gasket is used and/or head/block skimming is done, its usually best to turn the engine by hand after reassembly just to make sure nothing is touching http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/forums/showthread.php?101103-what-s-minimum-space-between-piston-and-head http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/forums/showthread.php?97661-Non-interference-engine-proof&highlight=valve+clearance very interesting reading yup i learnt that from the first time i took the came out lol, yea i turned the crank miltiple times by hand first, engine was assembled on a stand and lots of prechecks done, ill take a look at the linksHave this exact noise although not as loud in another OEM rebuilt 5e. Valves were re-shimmed to spec and still have the noise. At a loss hows yours held up or you at a standstill ?? mine is very loud, to the point where it would be embarrassing to drive if this was considered normal lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
goldenvtr Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) OK ive pretty much confirms its valvenoise heres the followup video. took the cams back out today and remesures everything so ive orderd all my shims now as but whilst the cams where out ive put a big blob of petrolum jelly ontop or each valvespring under the bucket then soaked in all and refitted all buckets etc, fired it up and no noise atall pretty much confirms what i though.. ill post up the final results after a reshim for archive purposes however the has come back (not as bad) now the jelly has dissolved in the oil note this video was after a few mins of it running, it was almost dead silent before the jelly melted >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY02t2sU5VQ Edited February 19, 2017 by goldenvtr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TimD Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Is the head getting oil? Not an incorrectly fitted HG or anything daft like that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
goldenvtr Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 havnt though that to be honest... pressure is 90psi on warmup then 35 psi at 1400rpm (cant lower my idle lower than that due to stupid inlet manifold) i did place the rocker cover on without the bolts to hold it down and oil pissed out so yea guess all ok haha i used a genuine toyota head gasket (metal 0.5mm from a paseo) so would only fit on one way Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GP82 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 ohh my god!! what a ballache. Listening to the vids, it does seem the noise is in cylinder head, the noise is very high speed so thinking valves, valve springs, but best to just strip the head, inspect everything, get everything within specs, try again. Good Luck! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jayc-glanza17 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Shims mate. Mine had the same noise. Re shimmed it and it quietened down a lot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
msg1 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Same problem here too mate...a couple years now, been waiting to hear of a solution myself...Too embarrassing to drive to meets etc. Keep us informed! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Turbo Goose Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Ive got a very similar noise on mineScat rods with wiseco pistons.All clearances are bob on and ive even changed to solid buckets and still no luck!Will try find the vid Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Turbo Goose Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) http://www.ukstarletowners.com/topic/99697-what-is-this-knocking-video-inside/?fromsearch=1Heres my thread and heres the videoIgnore belt noisehttp://s1096.photobucket.com/user/Haresign/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160224_171249_zpslb4uvheg.mp4.html Edited March 14, 2017 by Turbo Goose Quote Link to post Share on other sites
msg1 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 The ticking mystery I call it....KUDOS to the man who gets it solved entirely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 The ticking mystery I call it....KUDOS to the man who gets it solved entirely. al upto the builders kid if measurements are right ( also rightly measured !! ) then there is hardly any tap and what ever tap there is goes away over time Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flaminsam Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Is this a 4e head or a 5e head? I know they are the same but valve springs are different. Also did you say that the cams are different or are they standard? The reason I say is if the cams are ground to make the lobes bigger then chances are your valve springs could be binding up (no more squish of the valve spring) which could be the noise. The dollop of petroleum jelly could be masking the noise of the valve springs binding up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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