Camlifter seems to have damage along the edges

[RoyalDutchie]

A few days ago when I was busy installing my catchcan I broke the pcv valve. Took the head of and after some hours I finally removed the few pieces left from the pcv en installed all new gaskets and de pcv. But when I looked at my cams they seem like they have a few missing pieces. The touching bits do not have that much damage or scouring just the edges look to be damaged.

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by RoyalDutchie

[Sam44]

No mate I've got lots of stock cams with the same casting imperfections. 

Basically air pockets in the casting mold. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Sam44

[RoyalDutchie]

On the lifter? Seems strange to me nearly looks like they have been nibbled away by an outside source

Was impressed by the state of the contact parts after 22 years, the scouring seems to be minimal.

note:

These engines keep looking cheaper and cheaper😂 These days they would vacuum cast the cams etc to prevent these kind of imperfections. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by RoyalDutchie

[Sam44]

That's what I'm thinking. All the cams I've got have these marks but on reflection thy are just on the ramp edge (contact edge) like you say so it would be more that there is imperfections/air& contamination in the outer edge of the mold getting onto the casting. I've just looked over your pictures and you are right it's only on the contact part of the cam lobe.

With this being a productions line item machine finished (not hand finished) the cam edging will have sharp high friction edges helping find the weak points.

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Sam44

[RoyalDutchie]

If all cams have nearly the same ones it should be a engineering mistake inside the mold. Seems to be nearly impossible to have the same air bubbles every time.

note:

Actually was thinking about billets since I though they where at their final pace, but have been spending enough lately. Maybe some day once it is need I get some upgraded cams.

 

by the way I did notice the to lifter on the left top where brown wil check if I have a pic.

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by RoyalDutchie

[Sam44]

Could the follower cap be dancing side to side and slapping the lobe maybe. It is very interesting.

Maybe an unrefined casting mold if they all like identical. 

And yeh if you are on a ct9 b set of race high lift cams would kick ass big time. The feel of a tdo4l with great spool. 

I have a tongs ct9 a billet wheel at home I just got on an old MK1 GT engine. The lad didn't even know it was on the engine he know nothing about the GT turbo if you are interested in it, zero shaft play looks clean 

This with a set of race cams ooww next level with not alot changed. I think it's on a standard ported 4efte exhaust manifold also it looks smooth open and different from another manifold I have there. 

 

[RoyalDutchie]

The minimal scouring seems to be just located near the center so doesn't seem to be wobbling around.  Pretty sure Toyota didn't care about the casting imperfections since they are located outside the contact area. These engines still are the budget ones from Toyota, can't compare them to the quality of the 3sgte.

Actually trying to get a 5efthe acis manifold soon, Don't know if it is off use with a stock ct9b, but the td04l is on the horizon for now.

Do you know where to get these "race" high lift cams?

Edited August 21, 2020 by RoyalDutchie

[Sam44]

Great choise. 

Speed vision billet are the biggest overlap and lift I can find but I think they still keep the engine none interference. 

The acis manifold will not really affect the ct9 b unless you use cams this is were this manifold comes into its own and why it was made the 5ehfe acis engine has some crazy overlap cams I'd say race spec, not what you find at all on road vehicles they make torque late in the rpm range and to the 7krpm red line. The acis manifold is to help the low rpm torque by increasing air Velocity (vetec basically) and darn good from what I've seen on graphs. 

The manifold needs the cams tbh. There designed for each other. Unless the acis is used on a big turbo to hit over 300hp the manifold will help bring a better daily drive. 

A td04l 13t, using a good external gate (not eBay gates), using the cams and acis manifold would be very good couple this with a sixspeed box and you ain't getting beat on the street. And that would be at boost levels safe for a standard engine around .8bar id estimate around 190hp with some kick ass torque. But it's the power graph that you will feel 5e levels. Hunting speeds down easily. 

Another option would be a tongs ct9b (most hybrid's I've seen use the ct9a smaller exhaust port/housing, the ct9b is bigger producing better torque) on cams and the acis very very similar to the td04l setup the bigger exhaust turbine will delay spool but increase topend torque by reducing exhaust back pressure. I'm hoping the ct9b option would spool earlier but both should pull till Redline and make good hp on relatively low boost. 

I've recently felt a 5e on a Garrett gt17 sixspeed lsd using 5ehfe acis cams. Scary fast motorbike speeds. Constant pull it does not stop pulling hard. The gt17 is basically a ct9 sized turbo I'm not even sure if it's ball-bearing. 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Sam44

[RoyalDutchie]

15 hours ago, Sam44 said:

Great choise. 

Speed vision billet are the biggest overlap and lift I can find but I think they still keep the engine none interference. 

The acis manifold will not really affect the ct9 b unless you use cams this is were this manifold comes into its own and why it was made the 5ehfe acis engine has some crazy overlap cams I'd say race spec, not what you find at all on road vehicles they make torque late in the rpm range and to the 7krpm red line. The acis manifold is to help the low rpm torque by increasing air Velocity (vetec basically) and darn good from what I've seen on graphs. 

The manifold needs the cams tbh. There designed for each other. Unless the acis is used on a big turbo to hit over 300hp the manifold will help bring a better daily drive. 

A td04l 13t, using a good external gate (not eBay gates), using the cams and acis manifold would be very good couple this with a sixspeed box and you ain't getting beat on the street. And that would be at boost levels safe for a standard engine around .8bar id estimate around 190hp with some kick ass torque. But it's the power graph that you will feel 5e levels. Hunting speeds down easily. 

Another option would be a tongs ct9b (most hybrid's I've seen use the ct9a smaller exhaust port/housing, the ct9b is bigger producing better torque) on cams and the acis very very similar to the td04l setup the bigger exhaust turbine will delay spool but increase topend torque by reducing exhaust back pressure. I'm hoping the ct9b option would spool earlier but both should pull till Redline and make good hp on relatively low boost. 

I've recently felt a 5e on a Garrett gt17 sixspeed lsd using 5ehfe acis cams. Scary fast motorbike speeds. Constant pull it does not stop pulling hard. The gt17 is basically a ct9 sized turbo I'm not even sure if it's ball-bearing. 

 

 

Massive amounts of information there😁. I was mostly thinking about a good ct9 replacement which spools about 600-700 rpms later but keeps pulling to redline.  Also want one where balanced cartridges are available from reputable places for a good price. Maybe the gt17 is a good alternative that fit these criteria. 

[Claymore]

As far as the photos show it looks like a piece has chipped off rather than been missing in the casting, most likely an inclusion in the material that caused a weak point allowing this chip to occur in use or during machining. Or problems with the chilling / hardening process of a certain batch being brittle perhaps, the rest of the surfaces don't really seem worn. I doubt Toyota would install cams in that state at the factory although the only way to tell would be to find the missing piece in the engine or not. Is the shim ok underneath? Not damaged from the chipped edge?

[RoyalDutchie]

Haven't checked the shims for now. Was thinking about possible damage during machining etc. If only the center of the lobes make contact these chips should have passed "quality" control. Only the centers of the lobes seem to have minimal marks on some so  most are still polish to a mirror finish if the shim would have been damaged this will defiantly show up around the edge where the damage is. At least that is what I would be expecting. only 3-4 lobes have these chips the rest is fine.

Edited August 22, 2020 by RoyalDutchie

[Claymore]

The shims should show how much contact the lobes have with them. If its just the centre of the lobe (not full width) this will mean some serious forces concentrated in a small area.

Hope it's all ok 

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Claymore

[RoyalDutchie]

I have been under the impression that the only contacting surface is the top of the valve, but this can of course be false. Car will probably run for years to come(famous last words).

We'll see if they deteriorate more it is a good excuse for some uprated ones😅

Edit:

Read about how the cams etc work, and thing are getting more serious now. Toyota definitely didn't deliver them like this. The full lobe is in contact with the shim so pressure seem to have chipped the lobes😔. Could have been some bad parts in the casting which chipped under stress after many miles.

Edited August 22, 2020 by RoyalDutchie

[Sam44]

Yeh production line items are not subject to as good as quality control as say aerospace or race car. The reason I'm very surprised at people pushing alot of the engine to crazy hp levels, and expecting them to last.

I'd say imperfections in the material. The outer edges will be sharp (high friction) machine finished. This will find any weakness. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Sam44

[RoyalDutchie]

56 minutes ago, Sam44 said:

Yeh production line items are not subject to as good as quality control as say aerospace or race car. The reason I'm very surprised at people pushing alot of the engine to crazy hp levels, and expecting them to last.

I'd say imperfections in the material. The outer edges will be sharp (high friction) machine finished. This will find any weakness. 

Are billet ones rounded around the edges to preferent high friction chipping?

[Sam44]

Not sure but if you ever rebuild an engine work all the edgings and trust surfaces and bearing surfaces by hand and to a high polishes ever cam followers. 

You will be surprised at how easily the engine turns by hand and will imagine the power gained. (Parasitic losses) any true proformance engine will be hand finishes, honda comes to mind and Merc.