Is it worth remapping an N/A?

[GlanzaJim]

let people do what they want to,

if they want to gain as much power out of a N/A let them, its there choice at the end of the day not yours,

i think 98bhp is quick enough for a 1.3 but would be great to see atleast 110 + on a EFE

i had myne dynoed and only made 81.2bhp and spent around 300 squids getting that. i didnt want to do no more as i thought first car and quick enough for me.

but yeah im on the way on coverting my N/A to FTE, atleast it has the N/A shell

abit hard trying to find another salmon starlet though..

[ste91]

I agree that the 4EFE engine is great for what it is and I used to think spending money on a 4EFE would be a nice idea but honestly, it's a waste of time and money. You lot who think the 4EFE is a better route should really take your N/A blinkers off. Not meaning to sound like a cunt here but seriously, have a go in a standard GT/Glanza and you'll see the difference.

Sure you could really push a 4EFE and go silly with high compression/cams/ITB's and you may even crack 100bhp/per liter, which would be a great achievement. But you'd still only have the same peak bhp figure as a STANDARD 4EFTE, with no torque and no low end driveability. Which I'd say would be quite fun as I love revvy engines but in the real world it would still be a lot slower than a 4EFTE powered Starlet.

If you want to stay N/A (and fair enough, some people can't afford a 4EFTE conversion) then go for a 5EFE, stick with the basic bolt ons/breathing mods, and leave it at that until you can afford an engine that's worth throwing money at (4EFTE or alternatively a 4AGE if you insist on staying N/A).

[Jozinobi]

Everyone's ambitions and situations are different

I went all out and didn't get much return performance wise because tuning the n/a can be very unpredictable/experimental and expensive.

I went through all the mapping and all it gave me was a better fuel curve.

I have the most respect for everyone who is sticking with the FE's and trying things that are different.

For example Joel's NOS project and Steed's itb'd Seo. Without sounding big headed I've probably spent the most on an n/a EP and it IS hard work for little gain.

I must say that I did enjoy the experimental side of things and having the chance to try out different manifolds, full rebuilt engine, fhe internals, p+p'd head etc, it makes you appreciate the car so much more as decent n/a parts and options are scarce.

I find the FTE is a very nice performance increase but its not without its drawbacks - more fuel/oil usage, higher insurance and mod costs really do spiral out of control if you are uber enthusiastic.

However it has so much more proven potential and you have many more tuning options and parts open to you. You get exactly what you pay for.

It is the next logical progression and you won't look back.

I wish the current group of n/a tuners on UKSC the very best and hope that they can discover/unlock some things that I didn't.

Answering the original question, its what your n/a project is worth to you that counts, but please think very carefully as it could cost you a lot of money.

Those that are already so far ahead in their projects and can afford to, push on and show/prove all the naysayers wrong and be unique

Joz

[the quiet achiever]

hi

if nothing else the BLING value must be worth something .

but surely if it can be done easily then a coil per plug must have some gains on a single STD one in-built & not modifiable

lyle

[joel_ep91]

Let me see.....

2-3k to tune the N/A properly to achieve 30-40hp..... or 2k would get you either a full on the road GT or an Engine and some change...

where you get that sum of money i dont know as for me to get 94bhpi only had to spend between 3/5 hundred and at that the engine would have been more than capable to be over 100 if it had of been 100% helthyi.e if it wasnt over fueling like a bitch and useing oil.

and thats without me touching the internals or changeing compression etc i personaly think what i have done is pretty good value for money

[ste91]

What have you done?

[joel_ep91]

a few bits and peices haha

all will be revealed with my new engine

[ryan lang]

i spent 520 on my exhaust and obx, rolla mani was 50, and induction kit was 50 and i gained 13bhp and about 15 lb-ft

[micky boy]

a few bits and peices haha

all will be revealed with my new engine

Going down the NOS root then

[joel_ep91]

am indeed the hardest part so far has been getting forged rods on standard piostons

[steed]

@ the quiet achiever - the last corolla to have the 4e-fe had twin coil packs as standard, however you'd need the crank angle sensor form the same block as well as the dizzy blanking plug for the head. not to mention the corresponding ecu (if not already using after-market) [oh and on a side note, riko collected the ITB's yesterday afternoon]

And for information of the N/A guys, i'd advise against going 5E for tuning N/A it does not like to rev, as the internals are too tall, much better to stick with the square 4E arrangement.

Also, as a cheaper alternative to the TRD headgasket get a later 5E-FE gasket, (this is a trick i discovered on my 4A-FE tuned corolla by using the later 7A-FE gasket under the same prinicple). this is because the these later 'stroked' engine gaskets come from toyota as Multi Layered Steel (MLS) as an OEM fit and are about 0.2mm-0.3mm thinner than the composite and steel rings 4E-FE standard ones.

[micky boy]

Joel could you not use the ep82 4efte rods that are slighty thinker than ep91 4efte rods then use your stock pistons?.

ep82 rod on the left ep91 on the right

[joel_ep91]

im using scat rods to be safe with the nos as nos is more likely to bend rods. im using standard pistons because they are higher compression than fte pistons

[micky boy]

Yeah i see where you are comeing from best to be safe then sorry..

[micky boy]

This might help a few of use out Nic from the AU starlet club got 120hp out of an N/A useing 4efte RODS and so on.

http://www.ukstarletclub.com/forums/index....&hl=nicwan8

Also getting the best out of you N/A

http://www.austarletclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9868

[Sparky]

again how do you know? have you tried it? its all hearsay wheres the dyno graph? proof that you spent loads and only got 10bhp? theres no proof suggesting mapping only gives a couple of bhp...the corolla mani adds roughly 10bhp = $30 whereas the FTE.....get a proper mani + decat and youll only see 10-20 extra and the cost???

My opinion came from the fact that a mate of mine has spent over 3k on a ITB setup and Omex standaone on a Clio 182 and gained 20hp and thats a 2 litre.

N/a tuning is expensive and for the money you throw at it you would gain double with a turbo or supercharger set up.

He asked would it be worthwhile and I said NO because it isnt, I didnt say dont do it

[The Toffinator]

Thanks for the replies, got some thinking to do thats for sure!

[Guest Enzo]

And for information of the N/A guys, i'd advise against going 5E for tuning N/A it does not like to rev, as the internals are too tall, much better to stick with the square 4E arrangement.

Also, as a cheaper alternative to the TRD headgasket get a later 5E-FE gasket, (this is a trick i discovered on my 4A-FE tuned corolla by using the later 7A-FE gasket under the same prinicple). this is because the these later 'stroked' engine gaskets come from toyota as Multi Layered Steel (MLS) as an OEM fit and are about 0.2mm-0.3mm thinner than the composite and steel rings 4E-FE standard ones.

Quality post, thanx for sharing your knowladge

im getting my ep82 4efe dynoed this week hopefully,

id like to know what shes producing. standard its a 98ps engine wich equates to 90bhp,

id be so happy if it were over a ton. regardless it pulls amazing all across the board.

@ steed ive been thinking of going 5efe a lot recently

your one of a few people thats pointed out they dont like to rev,

its understandable also but does the same apply for the 5e-fhe with the higher lift + longer duration inlet cam?

book redline is at 7600 rpms.

But you'd still only have the same peak bhp figure as a STANDARD 4EFTE, with no torque and no low end driveability. Which I'd say would be quite fun as I love revvy engines but in the real world it would still be a lot slower than a 4EFTE powered Starlet.

it would be great if you just stayed up the road from me, id give you a shot in my na82 it would change the way you think

[BigMan]

to be honest I do get quite bored of people who say its a waste of time doing n/a tuning or do a 4efte conversion into a n/a shell.

Think one of the best bases to start tuning a 4efe would be maybe either get a JDM 1gen engine like enzo has in his car (revs to 7000rpm instead of about 6000rpm for uk spec) or maybe one out of a corolla but not sure what the major differences are since think they make 86bhp standard so maybe slighty different internals?

but thanks to steed for the post since was thinking of saving up for a 5e but after hearing it doesnt like to rev as much as the 4e puts me off.

[steed]

5E-FHE does indeed have an ecu set for 7800 in conjunction with high lift cams and higher compression internals. it should be noted that 5E-FE pistons are a different shape to 4E-FE si it would be i'll advised to use 5E-FHE pistons in a 4E eninge. This is because the 5E pistons aren't domed like the 4E ones

on another note, the later corolla 4E-FE (with twin coil packs, tubular manifold) is stated to have 85bhp out of the box, it also has a rev limit around 6800 so that's nice and high so the later internals are up for it. If it's like the last generation 4A-FE engine (which is also in the same series corolla) then the compression may be a smidge higher too (the AE111 4A-FE has a 9.8:1 compression ration wher as all it's predecessors had not higher than 9.5:1). I'f i was building a E series N/A cheaply ish, i'd use a corolla 4E engine as a base with either: 5E-FHE pistons and cylinder head*, or, the corolla 4E-FE head and pistons with the 5E-FHE camshafts. in both cases i'd swap to the later 5E-FE MLS headgaskte to up the compression ever so slightly, even possibly skimming a mil of the head or so for the corolla pistons.

it'd either leave the corolla tubular manifold or swap to another homemade ITB setup (like my last set ) i'd leave the corolla ECU for the Coil Pack managing but i'd use the pink 225CC injectors form the 5E-FHE engine, to give the little bit extra for the raised compression (the standard ECU is very clever and will alter it's fueling ever so slightly to make the best AFR ). For the exhaust manifold (to save money) i'd use the AE111 4A-FE 4-2-1 stainless tubular manifold (it's like that from factory!) you'll need to re-flange the the manifold, the pipes line up almost perfect (you need to move the two outer pipes in by about 10-20mm on either side, the two internal pipes line up fine). the end of the down pipe will need to be shortened to fit the corolla chassis.

that's all i can think of off the top of my head.

*Do not attempt to use a mix is the of 4E pistons with 5E head, this is beacuase the 4E pistons may foul in the cylinder head (never good).

[Asad]

Alot of mixed opinions.....each to there own i know what ill be doing tho

SAFCII and a S-ITC from apexi

http://www.ca.dsm.org/ARB/apexi_sitc.html