ollie ryan Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 i no this question gets asked alot but bassically the brakes on my car are shit! i need some really good brakes as the glanza is going a new route nowim currently running braided lines all round, drilled, grooved EBC discs upfront with yellow stuff pads, standard brakes on the rear and 5.1toyota brake fluid and they are still awfullim looking probably for some twin pots so what does everyone recomend and i need a near enough direct bolt on setupor can you get good brakes with standard calipers? if so how and can you upgrade the master cylinder to make braking better?anyhelp would be greatcheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GT Phayer Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 ive got a brake master cylinder stopper and going for the bmw e30 disc and gt4 calipers mate ment to be good Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Taggy Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I am going down the same route this month, sick of having a spongy pedal for brakes Although i have done a bit of research its not particularly cheap to do it. WMS kits will go straight on without the need to feck about, so will just be a direct replacement. For everything your talking around £650 for twin pots calipers, discs, lines and pads.I have seen a few Willwood kits going around but i have been reading up on them and a few people have had problems with them fitting properly, even though its going from the same car to another.I am gonna go with WMS, plus i would prefer to buy new when it comes to brakes rather than 2nd hand i no this question gets asked alot but bassically the brakes on my car are shit! i need some really good brakes as the glanza is going a new route nowim currently running braided lines all round, drilled, grooved EBC discs upfront with yellow stuff pads, standard brakes on the rear and 5.1toyota brake fluid and they are still awfullim looking probably for some twin pots so what does everyone recomend and i need a near enough direct bolt on setupor can you get good brakes with standard calipers? if so how and can you upgrade the master cylinder to make braking better?anyhelp would be greatcheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ollie ryan Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 im currently looking at buying new willwoods but i have been told that twin pots are better for starlets over 4pots for road use anyway is this true? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrkd5916 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 yes you can upgrade the master cylinder i think there about £100 upwards but i would not like to say if it would help much unless you upgrade to some like the wms kit or wilwood kit,do you still have abs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Didnt have a problem with my Wilwoods fitting.Managed to fade them quite badly on the track though!Not sure what pads I am running though, also using 5.1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ollie ryan Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 i was talking to shorty and he has recomeded me celica or ae111 twin pots over stuff like the willwoods Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Thats mainly down to cost mate, Wilwoods are £750 new IIRCBut obviously are much better than the twin pot setup! Depends how far you want to go tbh I had to have Wilwoods because I knew I was going to be tracking it, but twin pots would be more than enough for a decent fast road/occasional track use set up Quote Link to post Share on other sites
_shaun_ Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 i got the wms brakes and cant fault them worth every penny and was recommend them over the wilwoods by a few people and tbh happy i got them cause they saved me a fair few times now Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ollie ryan Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 well im planning on doing about 6track days a year then just road use mainly so im guessing best bet for me is twin pots? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keri-WMS Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I'm holding a new prototype WMS Starlet product in my hand at the moment! This one requires removing the dust shield (if it hasn't rusted like most do).....Oh, and WMS and Wilwood calipers are 4-pots not twin-pots like the Levin ones etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
_shaun_ Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I'm holding a new prototype WMS Starlet product in my hand at the moment! This one requires removing the dust shield (if it hasn't rusted like most do).....Oh, and WMS and Wilwood calipers are 4-pots not twin-pots like the Levin ones etc.my dust sheilds wouldnt fit with the kit i got anyway lol think he knows there 4-pots but hes been told twin pots are better for road use than 4 pots i always assumed 4 pots would be better regardless of situation? dont supose u could go in to some detail on that keri? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ro55ifumi Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Run Levins an 5.1 quality set up at the price nice pedal feel and braking John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keri-WMS Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 You can keep the dust shields with the WMS 275+277mm kits, you just need to get the tin snips out and trim off the parts that get in the way, then "tap" any other bits of the shield (just by 1-2mm) if they are just touching the disc. Here's how I did the one on the dummy-build:Also a 4-pot caliper is always going to be better than a 1 or 2 pot sliding caliper, because the slight (or heavy!) friction in the Toyota caliper slider means you'll always have one pad hotter than the other, putting uneven thermal loading on the disc and making it more likely to warp. The hotter pad will also fade early of course, and the friction also means you can't "feel" the brakes as well. Think about how nasty mountain bike brakes are when the cables are sticky as an analogy!!Ollie, if you're planning several track days a year I would honestly be looking at a 4-pot upgrade - you'll save a fortune in pad costs as well if you do go WMS (I think EBC / Ferodo pads for the WMS T20 caliper are cheaper than for the Wilwood one? And heaps cheaper than for any Toyota caliper!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrkd5916 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 sorry to hijack this but i can understand the idea of the 4 pots, but would there be any avantage to run a 6 pot capliper? or is it just over kill? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keri-WMS Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 The basic idea is the more pistons there are behind the pad, the more evenly the force is spread onto the pad. It makes a difference, but the law of diminishing returns applies - once you get away from sliding calipers the improvements get smaller and smaller as the cost goes up. The caliper stiffness is the next big thing that can be improved once you have an opposed 4/6 pot design, normally via a caliper milled from one solid peice of material called a "monoblock". These are VERY VERY expsive to make, but the WMS "Monobridge" T30x goes a long way towards the stiffness of a monobloc but without the massive price tag (monoblocks are often £1,700+vat to way over £2,000+vat EACH!!). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jozinobi Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Am waiting on my WMS kit to arrive as we speak Ollie and I'm upgrading from Levin twin pots.Hands down the Levins are more than capable for fast road use IF maintained and working properly however with 4 pots you have the extra scope for obviously more braking power if and when you need it especially if you are an aggressive driver. 4 pots won't be overkill and from what I know of, are the ideal setup for fast lightweight hatches.Most twinpot setups will be 2nd hand and are not guaranteed not to need a rebuild in the near future and start sticking if not maintained or underused. Once you start abusing them they will start to fade (I was using Endless SS pads) and the hunger for more braking power will begin.From cold they were pretty good.By the time you have paid for said 2nd hand setup usually more than a couple of ton, you could easily put that towards a wms or wilwood kit with a bit more on top.Not trying to plug wms but replacement pads and discs are really affordable and they will be releasing bell rotors, perfect for the track!My advice is buy new, stay safe and happy on both road and track with a better one-stop upgrade.If you are keeping your V for a good while, consider them a very worthy investment.@Keri - Is the new prototype/development something I could have tried out? Feel like I'm missing out Joz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keri-WMS Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Here's a better shot showing how much heat shield can be retained with the 275/277 kits: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ollie ryan Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 hmm now swaying towards 4pot, but how do they perfom on the road if im not getting any heat into them?and are they usable with abs? seems most people remove abs with willwoods Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keri-WMS Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Am waiting on my WMS kit to arrive as we speak Ollie and I'm upgrading from Levin twin pots.All boxed up and booked to ship out Monday (Earls sent me the lines at last) - means I have to get into work on time for once! @Keri - Is the new prototype/development something I could have tried out? Feel like I'm missing out Sadly not - the discs I'm playing with this afternoon will need 16" wheels for most people (or the odd motorsport 15").Alloy bells for the 275mm kits are getting a lot closer though...just need to get them as good as they can be off the bat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keri-WMS Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 hmm now swaying towards 4pot, but how do they perfom on the road if im not getting any heat into them?That's down to pad choice - there's a far wider range of pads for the WMS calipers than for the Toyota calipers. EBC Reds don't need much/any heat, the Ferodo DS2500 is also a fast road pad so should be fine from cold. Also with the larger discs there's a tab more leverage there over the twin-pots etc(hot or cold).and are they usable with abs? seems most people remove abs with willwoodsThe WMS T20 with our kits has been matched to the original Starlet calipers, so the ABS sees the same "load" and can react as normal - so yes WMS kits are fully WBS compatible (and don't mess up the car's front/rear bias). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jozinobi Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Thanks for the update Keri Top banana.Same as Ollie, I'd like to know how the 4pots perform from cold/before warming up etc and just some more general info please.Joz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daz gt turbz Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 after a very bad (and pretty scary) brake fade experience on track last sunday, a wms brake set up is next on my to do list once ive got the engine sorted! so you should hopefully be getting a pm in a month or so keri! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ollie ryan Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 but what im saying is i no 4pots will be good on the track but on good weather will i be able to stop my car?no one seems to be able to answear the question of how the perfrom when cold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sparky Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Well unless your gonna be driving your car like a twat from cold then there isnt a problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.