akyakapotter Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 At the end of the day it's what the individual prefers. Mine runs like an absolute sack of shit when it's too rich. Unless you're boosting big you don't need it stupidly rich IMO. Id get a wideband and do it myself if i were you (IM in the process of doing mine). Can't wait to get it mapped as it is so much easier. Have a go and see what you think, Haters gonna hate .gonna be doing mine asoon as i get the TD04 on i got a depo one sat in my pod doing nothing but showing me an error at the moment lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
funny onion Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Haha good luck! Mines been a pain tbh, picking up a sard rising rate reg tomorrow so going to try it with that. Mega pain having to pull over every 200 yards to adjust it lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akyakapotter Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I already have a SARD ;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mech5107 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) 14.7 to 1 AFR is not clever to anything thank light load cruising and idle.For a N/A motor i would aim for 12,5 to 1 for high loading (70+ TPS, 4500+ rpm) and ~13,5 for an all out racing engine that i could monitor any time. (As an example, an EP3 type R at 12-12,3 will be around 215-220hp, at 13,5 it will be around 230-235)For a turbo motor i would go for 11.5 for high loading, around 13 in light acceleration (still in vacuum or ~0.1 to 0.2bar boost) and 14.7 at light cruising (highway 65mph, 3500rpm).In a all out race turbo motor i'd go for 12.5 AFR as i could regularly monitor it and check for problems.Also have you ever installed an UEGO in a stock engine (4efte)?Idle is 14.5-15Light cruising is 14-14.5Light acceleration is ~13.5 going to ~12 after 3500-4000 rpmsFull power is 10.5 to 11.If boost is upped (let say 0,85bar) then it will go richer than 10 in full power.Full pull from 2000rpms will be 12.5 till 3500, around 11 till 5000 and 10,5 and richer till the limiter. Edited June 13, 2012 by mech5107 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
funny onion Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I already have a SARD ;)Cool, hopefully you'll do a better job than me ;). And as for the rest, agree to disagree mate, my car more or less wont drive when the afr is that rich and I have rolling road printouts to prove it. Mega over the top if you ask me. But whatever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mech5107 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Are you using narrowband sensor/gauge? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
funny onion Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 No sweetheart it's a uego wideband Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flaminsam Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 And the drama continues I see. Plus I don't know where you got the settings for the standard starlet from dude, but we have print outs of charls gt barely leaving 14.7 afr on the rollers at race tech. That was at standard boost, with a arc top mount, japspeed exhaust turbo back and a front mounted air filter. Standard ct9. Been doing all kinds of research on this subject at the moment and its not as simple as just aiming for a afr. Depends on ignition advance, ignition curve and alsorts. But again I'm a MECHANIC and not a tuner. No harm in learning. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
funny onion Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 My exhaust is a jperformance, keep up chuck! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Asad Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 may i see these print outs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
starletburkie Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 13afr on boost! LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I never once said anything bad about you being a mechanic Sam, but you even said so yourself you have never mapped a car before? How can you go around giving advice to people that is likely to ruin their engine?Yes maybe Charl's car runs fine with an AFR of 13:1 WOT, but the chances are not EVERY engine likes this. Every engine should be checked with a wideband and det cans, and even then this isn't exactly perfect! To get an exact sweet tune every sensor the engine uses needs to be datalogged to ensure its reading correctly at all sorts of engine loads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
funny onion Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 At the end of the day its a fucking nightmare of a minefield trying to set your own Fueling up. I'm just saying what mine prefers to run at. I've tried it lean as hell and rich as fuck (not by choice I might add) and mines happier when it's above 12 on boost. Anything below 12 at it just misfires and splutters (0.8 bar boost). So anybody making shitty "LOL" comments needs to get back. It's not worth arguing about so if you haven't got a constructive input then jog on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mattyD Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 i imagine it the same as fuel cut in that some engines hit it at .7 others can go to nearly a bar before hitting itas said its probably just your engine as everyone is different Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mech5107 Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Ofcourse no engine is exactly the same as another one, but it should be close. Otherwise there is an issue with that engine.Maybe it's not 12:1 at full boost, but it should be somewhere around...Are you sure your sensors are calibrated and correctly installed? Regardless of afr READING, doing some dyno pulls, either lean or rich, there should be a setting that it will give the best power. This is the correct tunning...afrs and ign should be near perfect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flaminsam Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 What would you say is the perfect afr mech with what advance on the timing? Reason I ask is maybe charls car is advanced too little or too much? It doesn't hesitate much, to be honest it pulls strong for the afr it is giving through the wideband. Got a sard rj fpr to put on it tomorrow after I finish work then it will be back to setting up after she fits her new fmic. Like I say I'm not JUST a mechanic. I don't just fit new parts to vehicles. I do not hesitate at anything. Epicycliycs, hydralic systems and electronics are my forte at work. Not to mention pneumatic systems and overhauling components. plus as charl said if you cannot justify or give any constructive criticism in this thread kindly do one. We are suppost to be learning and giving advice with justification. I have given my reasons why I have commented how I have commented. Any more constructive remarks are welcome, but please explain why you have put that comment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flaminsam Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Thanks jay. I have been thinking, is the reason most fte's run 11's because their compression ratio is really high for a turbo engine? Just like the old renault 5 engine they were a n/a with little or no internal modification to support turbocharging. Do the fte engines suffer with the same fate? Too high compression ratio so the only way to keep det at bay is to run low afr? Hence to keep the bores cool (as I mentioned in a previous post) and prevent det? Surely with a lower compression ratio something like 9:1 the afr could be increased to around the high 12-13 mark? Giving more power but keeping the det at bay? Any thoughts on this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
funny onion Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Off topic or not, An interesting read. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flaminsam Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 agreed ^^^^^yea jay i understand exactly what you mean. i guess im thinking too in depth chasing ponies as it where. but as said previously if the comp ratio was lower surely you can lean off the mixture? not by alot i understand but this would be true? also i have contact with a tuning legend in the states. he explains lots of things and writes many factual and how things work guides. this is where i have got most of my understanding about tuning from. here is a link to how a wideband actually works. has some good information in there. http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/id/12/how-do-wideband-air-fuel-sensors-work.aspx Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flaminsam Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 so basically to chase even more ponies than what a standard compression fte has, lower the compression even more. makes perfect sence.hows that for a sick wideband set up! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flaminsam Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 sorry to keep spamming but i have found a subject on motoiq that covers both compression ratio and afr mixture. good reading for those interested in this subject on afr and compression ratios. http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/id/1631/suck-squish-bang-blow-part-3-compression-ratio-and-air-fuel-ratio.aspx Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 From what i've seen/experienced a force induction engine produces peak power with an AFR between 11.4-12.2 and an N/A engine between 12-12.6. Although it will vary slightly due to every engine taking more/less ignition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
funny onion Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Turns out my manifold was cracked, badly, so I'm literally in the process of fitting a front mount, sard rrfpr, and a td04 kite ought now as we speak because that's the only spare set up available while it get the wepr welded. I'll be running this at 10-11 probably. Just to be safe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pick1 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Well this proved to be an interesting Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.