New to ICE questions

[rmsnoel]

Ive a car with no speakers or radio so Ive had a poke about and found 60w jvc front speakers and some type of sony explod cd player. Can I or should I use a amp on these. I wont be going for rear speakers unless I can fit some small ines either side of the parcel shelf in the plastics.

I think the question is what is a good wee basic package and would anyone suggest a spec for the amp.

[scatter]

dont use an amp it will probably blow speakers... Radios have an amp built in thats suitable for most standard speakers. I just bought some 180w (peak) speakers and they run fine off my radio.

Amp is needed if your putting in a sub woofer or if you have high wattage speakers. The sub needs much more power than normal speakers and so this is why an amp is needed.

Edited April 2, 2013 by scatter

[rmsnoel]

Thanks man. Im using the 100cm speakers in the standard positions but can I box them or do anything to improve the sound. Starlets wouldnt be famous for sound quality

[morgey]

Boxing them in would help but the main issue is they face the floor which sucks! Ideally you would want some 16cm ones in the doors but that means pods and wiring to be sorted.

Easiest way to get better sound chuck some 6x9's on the parcel shelf or if you dont have one in a box behind the seats with a small amp to power them.

[rmsnoel]

Power the 6x9's with a amp morgey? Ill seeif I can fit something in the rear plastics as the parcel shelf gets removed alot throughout the week.

[morgey]

Yeah if they're decent hi powered 6x9's an amp i reccommended but not 100% necessary

If you havent got use of a parcel shelf you can get 6x9 boxes which might be more practical?

[scatter]

I think if you just had front speakers it might be a bit invasive, as the sound is blasting right at you. I find this when I disconect my rear speakers. I have an adapter to remove my unplug my parcel shelf speakers so I can take it out as I please. Also, just a thought you may have already though of, what about cutting a hole in the side panel cover that comes off, you know the one where the jack is?

I dont know much about boxing speakers apart from the fact that it is complicated to get the sound spot on... I had thought about making my own sub box but was put off by all the science which made buying a box a better option. This link might help although its not specifcally for car speakers.

http://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/FAQ/Build/

If I had expensive, hi powered speakers I would get an expensive amp to compliment. But that said I would also need an expensive head unit or there would be no point... If your main concern is just getting a sound system a decent head unit and speakers will do, if you want crisp clear sounding, loud music then think about spending much more money. Also If you do choose to get an amp dont just go and buy the cheapest as the sound quality will proably be shit!

Edited March 26, 2013 by scatter

[Xpect]

Like I said in a previous topic, based on my research in a german HiFi-Board, rear speakers just destroy the stage that should be created when hearing music. If you really wanted to have a decent sound I would go for a kit of 16cm component speakers containing 2 16cm Deep-Middle-frequency speakers that should go into the doors (doormounts need to be built) and two high-frequency ones that should go into the A-Pillar or the insides of where the mirrors sit. These should be directed straight at your, the drivers, ear. That combined with a 4-way Amp and a Sub in the trunk (ideally in the space of the extra wheel). These parts combined should be enough for a rather good sound quality in the car without adding too much weight (as the extra wheel is removed and no rear speakers are used).

[scatter]

@Xpect: Interesting thread, it is making me think about where I should move my speakers. Personally I've always found front speakers a bit invasive and prefer to have more sound from the rear, however, now I'm going to take your advice and have a play with my stage...

Xpects's thread (wasn't hard to find but thought a link would be convienent for others)

http://www.ukstarletowners.com/topic/59034-tips-for-a-nice-sound-in-the-car/#entry757104

[Arnold]

Invasive sound at the front can be corrected if you have the appropriate controls on your head unit. My Pioneer DEH9600 allows you to centre the audio front to back, left to right, so you can get a perfect sound for you. Obviously for this, you shouldn't go sticking very powerful speakers in the front and crap ones in the back, it's all about balance. Also, you may want to move the speakers to the door instead of the dash, so the sound goes into the car and not into the floor.

As for running speakers without an amp, what? lol. You're more likely to wreck speakers or the HU by running them off the HU directly, as the HU usually only supports around 15w RMS, and uprated speakers demand much more. I had three amps in my first car, two cheap alpines that did 2x90w or 1x250w for a sub, and a 1100w sub for 2 500w subs that I had. The whole lot sounded wicked, but it's extra weight and the whole lot is sitting in my roof now.

Edit - something like this would do some 6x9's or front speakers, and is similar to the ones i've got. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alpine-MRP-T130-Car-Amplifier-/121087748224?pt=UK_In_Car_Technology&hash=item1c31646880 - Just search on ebay for Alpine MRP and loads come up

Edited March 30, 2013 by Arnold

[rmsnoel]

So if I have two 60w speakers in the oem position and a sony xplod type hu I could or should use a small amp?

[Arnold]

I'd recommend it. The 4x50w ratings on the head units are PMPO figures whilst the speakers will be RMS. If you buy an amp more powerful than the speakers, then you'll be fine. You will probably need to get a decent wiring kit, and try to keep power and speaker wires as far apart as possible to avoid interference, such as speaker cables down the left side of the car to the rears and power cables down the right.

[scatter]

As for running speakers without an amp, what? lol.

lol! what? Alan I feel sorry for you if you find that funny...I'm also slightly offened as I feel you are laughing at me. Also I dont agree with your rude and sarcastic comment and niether do the professional who sold me my HU, amp, sub and speakers all at the same time.

Yeah if they're decent hi powered 6x9's an amp i reccommended but not 100% necessary

If you havent got use of a parcel shelf you can get 6x9 boxes which might be more practical?

Like morgey said...best to use amp if 6x9s are hi powered but still not necessary.

If you buy an amp more powerful than the speakers, then you'll be fine.

What! yeah untill you turn the amp up too much and the speakers blow, err lol.

Edited April 2, 2013 by scatter

[scatter]

So if I have two 60w speakers in the oem position and a sony xplod type hu I could or should use a small amp?

It all depends on what you want from your sound system and your budget

If you just want to hear music (which is what I understood from your initial post) I would just go with the speakers and HU

However, if you want a fantactic clear and/or loud sound then invest more get a decent HU, hi powered speakers and an amp (which is not too powerful for your speakers - some people also believe that under powering is bad, but this is debateable) also you might want a sub if you love bass and want to feel it!

If you do get an amp bare in mind that you will need to buy a wiring kit (£15) and wire it to the battery. You can do this yourself easy enough, should take under an hour. I've recently done it so send me a message if you want some help.

Also you might want a wiring harness adaptor to fit your stereo. This makes wiring your stero a plug and play affair. If you dont get one its fiddleier to do and if wires are not well secured/joined they could come loose and result in a fire, which is what pursaded me to buy one. Good news is they are car specific rather than stero specific.

Edited April 2, 2013 by scatter

[Arnold]

lol! what? Alan I feel sorry for you if you find that funny...I'm also slightly offened as I feel you are laughing at me. Also I dont agree with your rude and sarcastic comment and niether do the professional who sold me my HU, amp, sub and speakers all at the same time.

You don't have to agree, everyone has different opinions, but i've built trophy winning sound systems with the advice of experts so i think i'll stick with the information I know.

What! yeah untill you turn the amp up too much and the speakers blow, err lol.

Turn the amp up? These aren't amps you use in rock bands, and we're not turning anything up to 11 here, the only controls i've come across are gain which you would set to 0. The rest of the input is done through the head unit, and as long as you have a good enough amp for the speakers you are running, then there is little risk of blowing anything up. Your ears will probably go before your speakers do!

[scatter]

still missing the point...if you agree that we all have different opionons why are you laughing at mine, its belittleing, which is ironic because you dont even relate 'turn it up' to 'turn up the gains'. I also wasn't aware that rmsnoel wanted an award winning sound system, if he does then my advice would be different, infact it would be along the lines of yours.

It would be nice to have a conversation rather than a battle mate, then prehaps we and other people can both learn something from each others opinions. But if you want to continuing trolling me then...

[Arnold]

It would be nice to have a conversation rather than a battle mate, then prehaps we and other people can both learn something from each others opinions. But if you want to continuing trolling me then...

That wasn't my intention, just offering some advice on the subject

[rmsnoel]

Thanks lads ICE is something I know nothing about as Im a fastroad driver and never had a interest in bass until my car has started to squeak. Ive tuned everything else and since Ive found bits n pieces such as headunit speakers and various cables I figured its time to get some tunes. Im worling with what I have, simpily to have sound but I want to make to most out of.it by fitting and mounting it as best I can. I greatly appreciate all input and difference in opinions are a valuable part of any forum. Ive another headunit coming tomorrow (freebie) so Ill start rewiring on saturday as someone has butchered the.clean utter fuck outta the speaker wire.

Ive always had stripped out.oilburning road screamers so it will be.nice.to have a sound deadening daily.commuter with some tunes going for a change.

[scatter]

good luck with fitting and that mate, if you dont get a wiring harness you might find the link below useful and if you dont use a harness make sure those wires are securely fitted together.

http://www.ukstarletowners.com/topic/58953-headunit-wiring

Also if you do decide to go with the amp make sure you earth that properly onto bare metal, I say this because when I bought my amp someone was in the shop who'd blown theirs up because they earthed it to a painted surface.

[rmsnoel]

My god we need sound deadening.. I fitted the jvc headunit and speakers and was happy with the.sound whilst parked but the volume I have to to use to overcome roadnoise at 50mph+ is crazy. And on the motorway I just have to switch it off as its a joke.

Can you lads suggest a cheap sounddamping ebay special and maybe a few locations around the car that need attention

[rmsnoel]

I thibk the bootlid/bootfloor and rear quarters could benefit from a mix of foam and resin type stuff. But what about up front. Should I spend money in the doors, around the steering column, and what about behind the front quarters as I can see bare metal from inside the car. Ive an inital budget of £50 for sound deadening although I can salvage the foam n cloth type sound deadening from the breakers yard. Will waxoyl'n the underside and arches help?

[daniel_g]

Loft insulation, not asbestos shit though, you'll die.

[rmsnoel]

Surely loft insulation will retain water? I can strip the foam/cloth from a few cars at the breakers and pack it into the bootlid and rear quarter panel space but can any suggest a dynamat style stuff for around the bulkhead and front wings.

Where are you guys applying damping to on your cars?

[scatter]

not sure on this one, haven't got the same problem as engine, exhaust etc standard and interior is not stripped. but have a few ideas and did some quick research...

are your speakers in rear only? if so it might/should help if you get some front ones as well or relocate rear speakers to front door cards (assuming there too big for standard place...here is a how to i was looking at http://www.ukstarletowners.com/topic/9564-how-2-fit-optional-door-speaker-pods/?hl=speakers, although I suppose if you have loads of road noise this might not help too much.

Loft insulation, not asbestos shit though, you'll die.

Surely loft insulation will retain water? ...

In america corning 703 insultaion (covered in felt) is used in many hiphop studios (even renowend ones apparently) as cheap effective soundproofing, But you cant get it in UK but I found out that a good alternative is suppposed to be rockwool RW5, http://www.building-supplies-online.co.uk/rockwool-rw5-insulation-slab-3754-p.asp - link says it is water repelant but I would of thought that its too thick and imprcatical for car? So Found this online car deading shop that might help you http://www.deadening.co.uk/

Finally you might find this video helpful, you could use info and like you said 'strip the foam/cloth from a few cars at the breakers' but maybe use it from luxury cars as vid says they have much better soundproffing material

Edited May 5, 2013 by scatter

[rmsnoel]

Scatter my car isnt stripped, thats my old car in the photo. As a standard car they are still quite noisey over 30mph. Im just thinking I need ti add foam or something as that butyl resin is already in our cars in most places.