RobSR

No worries, the physical injector opening time will tell the tale, but it sounds like with the DC you’re running at said boost you’d be very rich which would then also effect power.

You say they checked the fuel pressure, which 9 times out of 10 is the issue on starlets on the dyno, I’ve had it easily on 5 cars when tuning them, you’ll keep adding fuel, injector PW goes up, but the lambda doesn’t read any richer as the fuel pump can’t keep up. It’s common and then you end up with a funny looking fuel table too. 
 

If they are certain the fuel pressure is fine and isn’t dropping on boost, it may be clogged injectors, or they may be calibrating against a Lambda which is reading massively wrong. 
 

Did you ever have your injectors tested? 

On 2/18/2022 at 7:40 PM, snails ep91 said:

I also messaged Sacha at WEPR who i bought the kit from and he definately thought it was down on power. Mattwho is tunning it does say his rolling road dyno reads less than other but i dont know.

the head i have is mildly port and polished nothing crazy but standard cams, springs etc. 

From what ive read over the years 300-330hp is achievable on standard head and inlet.. that's what i was working on really and wasnt planning at this stage going for a fully built head.

I had considered coil on plug conversion to improve the ignition side of things but have believed that people have run 300hp on th standard dizzy setup.

My car is a uk n/a and not a glanza but i dont believe the hard fuel lines differ to be honest.

Im just conscious of pushing the car and raising boost levels if there is an underlying problem. I have asked they do a smoke and leakdown test on the engine next week so start from there really.

Could you pm me what you would supply them for? i had a quick look on you website and you did do plug and pluy convertors? id be interested if you could.

Thanks for your help so far. been very helpful.

Yes usually upto 330-350 ish at 1.7 bar on your turbo id expect 

Yes stock dizzy is fine at 300-350 too, when you start running higher boost levels the stock coil can struggle to give you the spark energy you need. 
 

N/A fuel lines also ok. 
 

Ask the guy mapping it what AFR and final injector pulse width you’re seeing at 1.4 bar around 6000 rpm. 
 

will PM you too.

Take the RT comment with a pinch of salt, you won’t make 345 @ 1.4 bar unless you have a very well built head. 
 

A 2860 usually makes around 350 with completely stock head (unported etc) nearer to 1.8 bar

It sounds like the power may be a little low, however this could be caused by a lot of variables, including the ignition advance the mapper has decided to use also. 
 

For the fuel system, you need to check the various components, and get the injectors cleaned/flow tested too. 
 

Stock fuel lines with a FPR are fine again for 350+ bhp. 
 

Yes they are the injectors but the older version by the sounds, I can supply the newer 1050X variant if needed, but in most instances the Bosch CP ones will be fine .

1 hour ago, SKINY said:

Masi Sacked, how long now until Max is stripped and Lewis crowned, they have admitted they fucked up by sacking Masi.

Still won't be watching tho 

They won’t reverse the result

You should not be maxing a 550cc at 240bhp so you may have other hardware issues on the car so you should investigate the complete fuel system. 
 

For a cost effective option I usually recommend the Bosch CP ones. From the time I’ve spent on the dyno with the 630’scc they usually will do around 350bhp fly on a 4E with GT28 but that’s pretty close to flat out on them at stock fuel pressure. 
 

You can get larger if required, for bigger turbo / higher power setups you can use the Bosch CP 1000s,  but for best control on 95% of 350+ bhp car I recommend Injector Dynamics 1050x. For reference a 1000cc you can make upwards of 450bhp fly on a 4E (tried and tested and still not maxed out) 

Who was mapping the car? Did they look into any of the fuel system components to help you fault find?

2 hours ago, snails ep91 said:

wiring looks class mate.

Whats the purpose of coiling it like that?

Thanks! They are called 'service loops' and serve two purposes really:

1. Strain relief

2. More importantly, if a pin gets damaged etc and it needs to be re-pinned, you can uncoil the service loop and you have a spare bit of wire to carry out the repair. As it'll be a completely twisted loom, you cant tug an extra bit through, so there for future servicing if needed. (shouldnt need to be, its a just in case)

1 hour ago, bailiff666 said:

Quick update guys 

IN SEARCH OF POWER 🧐
hello everyone recently I’ve tested my car on DYNO and the results came out surprisingly low ☹️ any suggestions why? 

Glanza V stock 4EFTE
DET3 ecu 
Tongs TD12 hybrid 
Blitz specR EBC set to 0.99bar
External waste gate Turbosmart 38mm
Fujitsubo exhaust full system 2.5
FMIC with short route pipes
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
Tuning Development Manifold/Decat pipe/screamer pipe 
Denso iridium spark plugs 
Magnecore 85 ignition wires 
HKS mushroom air filter
Aluminum twin core half rad 
Oil catch can 

Result: 176hp and 210nm

 

What’s the 208hp run?

6 hours ago, wickedep said:

The cost to import alloy piping is way too high here in Sri Lanka. cost wise, just not feasible. we can do it on request...but i just cant see people paying that kind of price.

Yes makes sense, I think you are reasonable priced anyway so I think you could bump your prices a little to do the piping in Ali as it is better for heat management 

Had a free 15 mins last night so started on the first connector on the ECU loom. Lots more pins and connectors to go.

Nice! I just don’t get why he still uses stainless for the piping rather than aluminium though!

1 hour ago, Sam44 said:

 

And guess what rob we don't need your expensive maps or ECUs to hit 200hp, crazy or what. 

 

I didnt say you did, however its a lot safer and driveability is miles better.

3 minutes ago, Charlie Thompson said:

Thanks for the input mate. I’ve bought a sytec fuel pressure regulator, I was told that it would be good for the job, would this be the case? 
 

while I’m on sorry for causing abit of a stir 😬 

It should be fine yes.

Haha don’t apologise, not your fault, as with any forum, it’s free speech as such so just different people giving their advice. 
 

Up to you whos you want to follow!

7 hours ago, Sam44 said:

What fpr have you got. The eBay regs only drop .2bar'ish (vacume line on) after setting it with it off. fse, and areomotive drop around 1bar. Sard and turbosmart do around .4 to.6bar. do you have a boost gauge that runs into vacume reading. If so can you tell me your idle speed at operating temp and vacume figures.

Let us know if it drops to 2.4bar with the vacume line on. 

This is purely out of interest for me. I'm intrigued in how little info Rob needs. Quite impressive. 

As said purely out of interest I'm really not here to argue. 

If you want a nice hp hit the magic fuel pressure figure is 3.6bar setting it with the vacume line off. At 1bar turbo boost on a ct9b I've seen a lad hit the magic 200hp. With the basic supporting mods, but it works just as good on standard boost yeilding around 160 to 170hp. 

Please keep checking your pressure everyday for at least 1 week they will stabilise/alter after the fuel line has been opened.

I will need a plug read/pic to see how hot the exhaust/cylinders are running. 3.6bar is typically safe on these. 

If you want to try it after rods pressure figures. You will see what I mean. 

If you do I'm on wats app I can help you tune it. Or I'm on here but with company if you now what I mean. 

Please reply with your results. We can start to put things to bed around the fpr. 

There is another great trick using a vw vacume chamber on the fpr vac line. I can show you, this helps the fueling around the turbo spool up point. Giving some kick ass spool up response. Very noticeable on the ct9b, ct9 hyb, tdo4l. 

This idea/bit of tec was taken off the Celica 3sge 2ltr running it's very clever multistage inletmanifold. Also I've found it on the MK1 MR2 4age multistage inlet. 

So I'm very confident it will also help benafit the 4efe lads on a adjustable fpr. 

Thew for these lads you have to run the pink 4age/7afe/5efhe 230cc injectors running around 2.5 to 2.7 bar fuel pressure setting it up with the vacume line on. Some more kick ass power. Use the eBay aero motive copy fpr these only add around .2bar of fuel pressure on throttle great for the 4efe and bigger injectors not to go to high, just for good fueling. On the short turn fuel trim, the long term closed loop trim will more are less be the same at operating temp as on the factory 198cc green units.

For the turbo lads the fse is the one to get. 

The 230cc pink denso injectors are only 2 steps up on the denso injector size so you can reduce the fuel pressure to hit the sweet spot. These injectors are found on every Toyota of this era at and above 100hp to around 140hp, abit like jetiing a carb.

You’re saying it’s ‘impressive’ that I don’t need to know the exact FPR the guy is running - that’s because whatever FPR you run, the pressure changes based on the engine vacuum not the FPR - if someone fits an eBay / faulty / shit FPR that doesn’t alter the fuel pressure correctly based on the engine vacuum and boost - that’s not my problem. 
 

It’s all standard stuff, it doesn’t need to be over complicated. 
 

Talking of ‘impressive’ telling the chap to run 3.6 bar fuel pressure and it’ll make 200bhp is a bigger stab in the dark when you have no idea on his setup.

The stock ECU runs stupidly rich with a CT9 on stock ECU with stock fuel pressure with bolt ons (decat, filter and exhaust) - they run flat 10s on boost, let alone doing that with 3.6 bar fuel pressure, it’s only going to get worse.
 

This advice is the exact reason why @Patches has called you out above - rightly so too. 
 

Last CT9 turbo car I mapped made 200 bhp at the fly at 1 bar, guess what; it had a stock FPR so the base fuel pressure was no where near 3.6 bar - I wonder how that was possible? Oh yes, because the FP doesn’t need to be anywhere near 3.6 bar base

2.4 was with vac line on as most people test them with the car running so naturally the vac line is still on as with stock ECU you can’t really run the pump without starting it unless you go into the Diagnostics block, but as said, best practice you should set it with the vac line removed, in which case set it at approx 2.8 bar.

On 1/28/2022 at 7:27 PM, Charlie Thompson said:

When setting my fuel pressure regulator up do I do this with the vacuum line on or off? 

Traditionally you set them with the vac line off so you're setting the true base pressure 

I split the turbo off the mani when it’s stock manifold, you can get to them all with swan leg spanner’s 

That’s then frees up a lot of room to get at the two underneath the manifold 

Always takes a while the first time you do it, then it gets easier

You can get the crank on the head welded up, looks like it had been blowing there too from the colour 

Wiring loom planning ongoing! 
 

Will be mounting on bulkhead for engine loom connection 
 

Stock is 2.4 bar 

As Claymore said, a lot of people forget that if it’s still stock engine, you should use the grades Toyota suggest as the clearances were done appropriately from factory for this. 
 

We’ve all been there, years and years ago when I wasn’t fully clued up I wanged 10-60 in mine, it was fine but technically not the right thing to do even tho you’ll think it’s better. 
 

Fuel cut limiter is fine on 4E, they aren’t the biggest fan of an ignition cut tho (must engines aren’t) so that wouldn’t help if it you had your launch setup like that (again most do as they like the noise and flames lol)

The ACL thing came about as you can get ACLs made in China (newer part #) and the original flavour made in Australia, they are different part numbers so there is a difference between the two. 

Ive used both in builds without issues however 

2 hours ago, Socks said:

This is lovely.

What's even more impressive than the turbo and engine going in there will be your touches with technology.
Look forward to seeing it setup and running Rob!

Thanks! Look forward to get it running too! Still plenty to do mind

On 12/29/2021 at 10:22 PM, CaroleBaskin91 said:

Hi, I don't suppose you still have the engine loom, and also a matching dash loom? 

Hope snails doesn't mind but I have engine loom available if needed 

30 minutes ago, snails ep91 said:

This is awesome. Looks like a lot of great quality fab work going into this.

Please keep updating! Will love to see this progress!

Thanks and will do!

42 minutes ago, CallumWellens33 said:

As much as I'd love to chat and have a ganders at the type r ep913😎, your a 7 hour round journey pal. Thankyou though. 

No worries!

40 minutes ago, Claymore said:

Looks like a pretty serious SKarlet build here! 

Is the boost control cannister for wastegate dome pressure? As a replacement for the CO2 bottles drag racers use?

Also interested to see the results from the vertical flow intercooler.

Essentially yes, you ‘fill and empty’ the pressure in the dome of the wastegate to maintain your calibrated target. 

The canister is there and is fed via a one-way valve so it stores positive pressure so it’s available when off throttle / when the turbo is choked (unlikely to happen in my setup with no restrictor etc) but the theory is similar to that of a Co2 setup, but I’m recycling boost pressure not using Co2

Further more, 95% of the ECUs on today’s market that use dome pressure control can only use that for the boost control strategy (Fueltech for example disable the MAP target part when using dome pressure control) whereas on mine I can have a dual MAP and Dome pressure control target so the boost control should be spot on. 
 

Yes will post IC efficiency results when it’s done as I have pre and post temp and pressure so can all be logged correctly - no ‘assumptions’ here!