Right then guys just though this might help peolpe looking in to short shifters if we can put this together!! I measured the throw between neutral 3rd and 4th. I measured from a constant no moving object (ie the stereo) to take out the guess work!! Neutral 3rd 4th if we can put a guid together showing standard shifter throws trd, c's, ccm etc So if anyone has another short shifter or standard and would like to add to that would be mega! Standard Shifter N-3rd N-4th 3-4 TRD N-3rd N-4th 3-4 C's N-3rd N-4th 3-4 TC N-3rd 48mm N-4th 45mm 3-4 93mm CCM N-3rd N-4th 3-4 if people add it to the list ill edit them all into the first post! Rob