Great setup.

[Sam44]

I found this on the you tube. 

Can anyone tell me more about this build and if there is a Dyno graph. 

Fantastic approach as well as never before seen setup. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Sam44

[Claymore]

Looks like some clever parts bin raiding, corolla manifold, later generation coil pack (must be crank trigger also). Looks like glanza power steering pump and feed hose with stock 4efe high pressure hose to rack (seen this a couple of times now). Don't like the IAT sensor pre turbo though. Might as well put it in the glove box. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Claymore

[Sam44]

Haha, no shit,  yeh I was thinking the exact same thing it's for engine intake temp post turbo. 

I don't like saying it straight off the bat. But the temps will be totally different school boy error. 

Some great parts. I'm really liking the crank trigger as the cam belts on these do flex so to have a crank trigger on the cam ooooowww nasty. Especially if you've spent money on a fancy setup. 

Saying this he might be monitoring pre intake air temps separate leading to the design of the air filter position??. As well as engine intake temperature sensor on the ems.  The rest of the setup says he's on to something.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Sam44

[Claymore]

8 hours ago, Sam44 said:

Haha, no shit,  yeh I was thinking the exact same thing it's for engine intake temp post turbo. 

I don't like saying it straight off the bat. But the temps will be totally different school boy error. 

Some great parts. I'm really liking the crank trigger as the cam belts on these do flex so to have a crank trigger on the cam ooooowww nasty. Especially if you've spent money on a fancy setup. 

Saying this he might be monitoring pre intake air temps separate leading to the design of the air filter position??. As well as engine intake temperature sensor on the ems.  The rest of the setup says he's on to something.

No offence intended, just my sense of humour.

Could be using pre and post iat sensors to monitor intercooler efficiencies like you said or data logging perhaps. It is what it is.

Speaking of cambelt stretch, it will also get worse with bigger cam profile and increased strength valve springs.

Either way I like the rest of the work. I've already expressed my fondness of using updated O.E parts in other posts. It would be nice to see dyno runs with the un modified corolla intake manifold and ct9.

Think you might like this build 🔼

[Sam44]

Of course exhaust was wrapped and every thing, big respect, alot of well placed items, and using a ct9 hyb. I'd like to see what the 4efe cams and corolla inlet do to help spool this turbo. 

Did you see the aussi builds on ct9hyb  I put up the other day. Very impressive figures with 1 standout graph looking like a 5efte ct9hyb graph or certainly a cammed 4efe 225hp/180ftlds constant pull. 

Epic find that build thanks for sharing. Figures crossed he fixed the issue. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Sam44

[Claymore]

6 hours ago, Sam44 said:

Of course exhaust was wrapped and every thing, big respect, alot of well placed items, and using a ct9 hyb. I'd like to see what the 4efe cams and corolla inlet do to help spool this turbo. 

Did you see the aussi builds on ct9hyb  I put up the other day. Very impressive figures with 1 standout graph looking like a 5efte ct9hyb graph or certainly a cammed 4efe 160hp/180ftlds constant pull. 

Epic find that build thanks for sharing. Figures crossed he fixed the issue. 

Didn't see the graphs, which thread was it on?

Really liked the build thread too. Would have loved to have seen what a 5e-fhe + t could do on the rollers 😥.

[Sam44]

Dutchies cam thread are his sparkplug thread. One of them. 

[RoyalDutchie]

Which graph? I'll be happy to post it here.

[Sam44]

This is not the graph from the setup above in the video but a very impressive graph for a 4efte on a ct9 hyb. 

Mods are: -
Tongs turbo G-spec hybrid
HKS actuator - (1bar)
Dave B mani and decat heat wrapped
Kakimoto cat back
Relocated air filter behind grill
Baileys dump valve
FMIC
Walbro fuel pump
315cc Supra injectors
TRD ignition leads
SARD RRFPR at standard pressure 2.3bar
Blitz Access ecu
Civic Ali radiator
Standard internals

I'd expect the graph to look like this sharp torque drop out at 5.5krpm 

 

spec was
emanage blue maped by Chris
sps manifold
autofix decat
open turbo
gt spec hybrid
blitz ssbc
autobahn fmic
buddy club race spec 2

This torque drop out looks like this if you pick the wrong play ground to play in.

The first graph would more than certainly match the tdo4 and might even beat it as the tdo4 will still see a torque drop at 5.5krpm on standard cams. 

 

Tdo4l hyb graph 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Sam44

[Claymore]

1 hour ago, Sam44 said:

his is not the graph from the setup above in the video but a very impressive graph for a 4efte on a ct9 hyb. 

Mods are: -
Tongs turbo G-spec hybrid
HKS actuator - (1bar)
Dave B mani and decat heat wrapped
Kakimoto cat back
Relocated air filter behind grill
Baileys dump valve
FMIC
Walbro fuel pump
315cc Supra injectors
TRD ignition leads
SARD RRFPR at standard pressure 2.3bar
Blitz Access ecu
Civic Ali radiator
Standard internals

I'd expect the graph to look like this sharp torque drop out at 5.5krpm 

 

spec was
emanage blue maped by Chris
sps manifold
autofix decat
open turbo
gt spec hybrid
blitz ssbc
autobahn fmic
buddy club race spec 2

This torque drop out looks like this if you pick the wrong play ground to play in.

Can you elaborate on this please?

The mods look very similar (except for the fuel side of things). In your opinion why does one drop off and the other not?

I don't see a different cam listed in the mods spec. so it can't be that. Turbo design? If only compressor maps were more common!

[RobSR]

I’m not sure that a CT9 hybrid that produces peak torque of 180ft lb at 6k rpm is seriously impressive? 🤷‍♂️ Sounds pretty terrible to me..

[Sam44]

I think you missed the point. 

@ 1bar there nice figures. With the setup listed. 

I'm just looking into the blitz access ECU are these programmable??

 

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Sam44

[RobSR]

I’d disagree, but each to their own preferences. 
 

No they are not programmable 

[Sam44]

2 hours ago, Claymore said:

Can you elaborate on this please?

The mods look very similar (except for the fuel side of things). In your opinion why does one drop off and the other not?

I don't see a different cam listed in the mods spec. so it can't be that. Turbo design? If only compressor maps were more common!

Its a tuff 1 going off the setup, this looks very similar to the 5e graphs I've seen but these normally produce more torque at these hp levels. 

I'd say it's a 4efte with the offset of hp to torque levels. 

It has to be cam setup. I've seen others, and tried to hold on that torque with turbo design and it's a balancing act with spool up. The 4efe cam setup make it even harder with a smaller turbo. 

I'm wondering if the cams have not been timed right upon installation at some point. I'm reading something about 5e builds bring set on 4e cam Mark. 

I've studied alot of Toyota e series graphs in the past 8 month. 

What's your thoughts?

Edited August 24, 2020 by Sam44

[Sam44]

14 minutes ago, RobSR said:

I’d disagree, but each to their own preferences. 
 

No they are not programmable 

Just out of interest what figures would you be happy with on this setup. 

I'm finding good figures on the plug and play blitz Access ems. When I search them. Also the hks fcon

Edited August 24, 2020 by Sam44

[RobSR]

35 minutes ago, Sam44 said:

Just out of interest what figures would you be happy with on this setup. 

I'm finding good figures on the plug and play blitz Access ems. When I search them. Also the hks fcon

The peak figures are ok, it’s just the curve is not fab, very laggy/unresponsive.

Peak torque should be a lot lower, but no doubt down to having an ecu that’s not correctly calibrated to the cars setup.

[Sam44]

Yeh its a funny 1. Possibly a false ct9hyb/4efte graph. 

It was more the topend power I was foucesing on.

Like you say we could improve big time the lowwer rpm band using a ct9+   

But 222hp @1bar is close to peak hp from this turbo at this pressure. from what I can find. I've found the highest so far is 227hp daztec ems. 

I'm looking for the graph now. peak torque at 6.5krpm is lowwer.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Sam44

[Claymore]

11 hours ago, Sam44 said:

Its a tuff 1 going off the setup, this looks very similar to the 5e graphs I've seen but these normally produce more torque at these hp levels. 

I'd say it's a 4efte with the offset of hp to torque levels. 

It has to be cam setup. I've seen others, and tried to hold on that torque with turbo design and it's a balancing act with spool up. The 4efe cam setup make it even harder with a smaller turbo. 

I'm wondering if the cams have not been timed right upon installation at some point. I'm reading something about 5e builds bring set on 4e cam Mark. 

I've studied alot of Toyota e series graphs in the past 8 month. 

What's your thoughts?

This is the puzzle. 2 largely similar spec cars (already built) producing different power and torque curves. How can anyone tell which element is making the increase or decrease unless each mod is tested separately or analysed first hand with all the required information?

Does the exhaust manifold design add low down torque by spooling the turbo earlier or is it a characteristic of the Hybrid turbo design? Is the gt spec hybrid choked up top because its based on the CT9a using a restrictive exhaust wheel / housing or is the down pipe and exhaust too restrictive top end? Then let's not forget these cars are getting on a bit now and may have various levels of maintenance and or inherent faults that weren't diagnosed and rectified before sending to the dyno (a simple boost leak?). My point is we don't know for sure when only reading words on the internet.

Neither graph plots boost pressure or AFR so we don't know how that is affecting the power curve either. Obviously we can't see what timing has been pulled or added (in the Blitz). I understand that most regard the "plug n play" ecu's as having more aggressive timing and leaner fuel (again, anecdotal evidence from internet forums ?, not analysed under laboratory conditions and yes I know that it's not practical to do so).

I have always been taught to challenge results and findings and to analyse the methodology to validate the results.

It seems with so many influencing factors (parts, problems and tuning) it can be difficult to specify / guarantee that using parts A, B and C will get you X, Y and Z. There is also a lot of gains to be had from a fully mappable / piggyback ECU with good tuning which will make the best of any parts setup as RobSR has quite rightly stated (no doubt from years of tuning experience). Also having the system analysed first hand by knowledgeable tuners will highlight areas to rectify regarding parts.

I'm going with: make sure your car is well maintained, add sensible (obvious) mods, get a good tune from a company that knows their stuff and see the results for myself on my engine. Then based on my own results with help from a tuning house, address any areas that need attention one piece at a time.

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Claymore

[Sam44]

The way I'm reading it is as follows. 

This graph in question (build)has big diameter items on it (exhaust and inlet). Aimed at peak power levels (to produce as much hp peak rpm as possible). This explains both the low rpm lack of power (engines low rpm gas flow rates) and high rpm good power, but not the torque curve at 6.5krpm being were it is. 

In order to get the good hp figures, afr can't be to far out tbh Normally you wouldn't hit top figures if there were a afr or ignition advance issues. There are always anomalies that can happen to produce a graph like this. (Cam timing out, afr and ignition timing not quite balanced at optimum

Saying this the graph looks nothing like a ct9 sized turbo. The spool up power characteristics are missing, as well as the 4efte cam characteristics, droping torque off at 5.5krpm. with the small turbo hitting this drop off curve hard (high exhaust back pressure).

The peak power figured and hp to torque difference of the engine do match a ct9 hyb and 4efte. Making this graph very interesting. Could incorrdct cam timing produce this. If so could changing engine items as well as afr/ignition advance help produce more. 

Also I've been looking at the blitz access plug and play ems. There's some great ct9 figures using this ems. I'm trying find how these are setup/do they share the same maps. 

The other points of interest for me: injector size on the ems as well as set fuel pressure. 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Sam44

[Claymore]

3 hours ago, Sam44 said:

The way I'm reading it is as follows. 

This graph in question (build)has big diameter items on it (exhaust and inlet). Aimed at peak power levels (to produce as much hp peak rpm as possible). This explains both the low rpm lack of power (engines low rpm gas flow rates) and high rpm good power, but not the torque curve at 6.5krpm being were it is. 

In order to get the good hp figures, afr can't be to far out tbh Normally you wouldn't hit top figures if there were a afr or ignition advance issues. There are always anomalies that can happen to produce a graph like this. (Cam timing out, afr and ignition timing not quite balanced at optimum

Saying this the graph looks nothing like a ct9 sized turbo. The spool up power characteristics are missing, as well as the 4efte cam characteristics, droping torque off at 5.5krpm. with the small turbo hitting this drop off curve hard (high exhaust back pressure).

The peak power figured and hp to torque difference of the engine do match a ct9 hyb and 4efte. Making this graph very interesting. Could incorrdct cam timing produce this. If so could changing engine items as well as afr/ignition advance help produce more. 

Also I've been looking at the blitz access plug and play ems. There's some great ct9 figures using this ems. I'm trying find how these are setup/do they share the same maps. 

The other points of interest for me: injector size on the ems as well as set fuel pressure. 

 

 

Hey Sam,

I don't want to turn this into a bun fight. I've said my bit as you asked me for my opinion. 

If you feel you can find the "Ultimate" spec for Glanza's by trawling through umpteen graphs and spec lists and deciphering what the car "actually" has and its unknown settings from them, then feel free.

Cheers 

[Sam44]

It'll will never be that my internet buddy never worry. It's good to bounce off ideas between us and others helps me settle on a general idea of the area to fouces on and try developing, this is something we do between the separate groups at work working on the same problems. Good things come from it. 

There's alot of capable people on here. 

The area I'm interested in is the power from 0rpm till around 6krpm to 6.5krpm. if I can produce as much torque as possible in this range with around 225hp then it's a very capable street setup rolling onto a motorway winner which is were the turbos like the bigger td04 take over. 

This graph in question does not fit the very tipical ct9/hyb graphs that are all over to be found this is why it here to be talked about. 

Here are some 4efe graphs very similar specs. You can see the 4.5k 4efe cam configuration drop out as well as possible fueling issues (Wavey lines). You can see 1 is better than the other. Look at how it hits the torque line harder but is present at the same point on the hp line.

Now here is a ep80 gi using the turbo inlet, earlier ems system, the main difference is the inlet design as we all know now look it's seen in the graph (our understanding is the corrola inlet helps low rpm power and the turbo power inlet helps topend power). 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Sam44