Dutchies Glanza V

[RoyalDutchie]

On 5/1/2021 at 2:24 AM, Trevstar said:

Ahhh see this is where things start to get confusing, where you have 2 companies that recommend different things 🤔

As Quaife suggests the opposite - https://shop.quaife.co.uk/rem

I've had a few conversations with Nova racing (that does my superfinishing), plus a couple with Quaife themselves, and from my understanding with the research I've done, I don't see why you would want to add friction to a gear when that's not how a helical diff operates, but especially with a coating thats adds friction, surely that means the coating will wear off fairly quickly? And where surfaces are in contact with each other, wouldn't you want both surfaces to work together as best as possible rather than against each other? In my mind it's like rubbing 2 bits of sandpaper together lol 

And I guess that also means you wouldn't be able to apply the WPC either if you wanted to as it will effectively blast the coating off, unless they can mask it off or do the process by hand

Adding friction to any gear is not something that I have heard of being recommended in any research I've done or found offered as an after-treatment.

is a slightly different take on a helical type of diff, and to go on and say Quaife as an OEM manufacturer has inconsistent performance is a little bold, but then again both wavetrac and Quaife have lifetime warranties, they both have a long standing rivalry, and they both have people that swear by them, so perhaps we are being sold bullshit from both sides? 

 

The quotes are there for a reason, I do not trust every company on there opinions about things, of course I do not know everything just yet myself.

Wavetrac doesn't add a coating to the gear but rather adds a surface between the housing and the gears displayed in the image below(the yellow bits are carbon.

 

I'll get back on this topic by about July once I have graduated on the topic of embeded engineering🎓🤓. I'm interested in the laws of nature and chemistry. Pretty sure torque is based on friction, but can't guarantee this. Let's postpone this for later.

Note:

The link seems to regard to gears inside a gearbox instead of a helical diff. In this case yes I fully agree it should be able to transfer load with the lowest amount of friction as possible. With helical diffs I'm unsure for now, this is a question for the future for me.

Edited June 10, 2021 by RoyalDutchie

[Trevstar]

8 hours ago, RoyalDutchie said:

The quotes are there for a reason, I do not trust every company on there opinions about things, of course I do not know everything just yet myself.

Wavetrac doesn't add a coating to the gear but rather adds a surface between the housing and the gears displayed in the image below(the yellow bits are carbon😞

 

I'll get back on this topic by about July once I have graduated on the topic of embed engineering🎓🤓. I'm pretty interested in the laws of nature and chemistry. Pretty sure torque is based on friction, but can't guarantee this. Let's postpone this for later.

Ohh right right right, apologies, I see where you're coming from now, I thought you meant they put a carbon coating onto the faces of the worm gears to increase friction between two metal surfaces 😅 that carbon fiber plate is to create preload, but as far as I know preload is something that's more for clutch type LSD's, I wasnt aware that a helical can be preloaded in that way

Torque, friction & traction I will leave to be explained by someone else that understands it better and can explain it better than I can, but in terms of LSD's it's the traction or slip at the wheel/tire that determines where it sends torque. A limited slip differential is how much torque the diff is willing to 'slip' through the wheel with the least amount of traction, at least that's how it was taught

In both of our cases, the mechanism inside our helical differentials doesn't rely on friction of the internals like a viscous or clutch type differential does (friction between the plates when one wheel begins to spin faster than the other because its slipping/losing traction, and sends that torque to the other side). Instead ours just re-routes the torque via the worm gears when one wheel spins faster than the other. So by reducing friction with the superfinishing, I mean reducing the friction of metal on metal components such as the worm gears and sun gears which is where the majority of the wear can take place with prolonged hard use. Basically all I'm saying at is superfinishing and WPC treatment will be fine for our diffs and it won't adversely affect their operation because they don't rely on friction inside the differential, and the worm gears are effectively free floating

But it's different in the case of the wavetrac because its a slightly different setup and uses the carbon fiber plate to add a defined amount of preload, which separates the ends of the worm gears from the casing so it removes metal on metal contact in that area, but the gear teeth are still in contact with each other which can wear over time. But I see what you mean now with plate by if the gears were superfinished, that might affect the preload if the plate is trying to add resistance to the gears turning. But this doesn't apply to us

But like I said, superfinishing is not totally necessary for a diff but it will help extend its working life. I'd recommend it more for the actual gearbox gears though as they're more likely to fail way before a differential, especially if it's used for fast road regularly but it definitely won't save you if you put too much power through it! That's where WPC may help

I'm surprised that wavetrac don't make anything for toyota's though, would be nice to have more options available to choose from if they did

Anyway, sorry for the long post again, I'll leave you alone now 😂 keep up the good work 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Trevstar

[RoyalDutchie]

Past few days I've been blasting and coating some bits to get them back to spec. Primed the brackets for the bumper with a zinc coating (pretty soft don't use this, go with 2k epoxy primer) which should last for some time(tested to last 500 hours with the salt spray test).

Coated the new filler neck guard with a layer of perma film which should make it last and resist stone chipping.

 

Made these inserts for sandblasting the brackets from thermoplastic. Pretty neat stuff for blasting for sure.

Also redone the wipers came out very clean hope they last.

Edited May 28, 2021 by RoyalDutchie

[RoyalDutchie]

15 hours ago, Trevstar said:

Anyway, sorry for the long post again, I'll leave you alone now 😂 keep up the good work 

No problem mate, will keep going on with the project and slowly restore it to a better car. Neat little machine, never expected the starlet to be like this.

[Trevstar]

8 hours ago, RoyalDutchie said:

No problem mate, will keep going on with the project and slowly restore it to a better car. Neat little machine, never expected the starlet to be like this.

Please do, I've always loved them, I don't think I will ever know any other car as intimately as these and I enjoy seeing them being restored to a good standard! 

Also, you see where the rear passenger pockets are, pop them out if you can and have a look down into the sills as I'm seeing a lot of them starting to suffer from rust in that area just in front of the rear wheels. If you look underneath, there should be an oval rubber plug there, get yourself a cheap borescope snake camera that you can plug into your phone (unless you already have one) and have a poke around inside where that oval plug is, or pop out the plug and feel around inside with your finger. You'll notice that around where that plug is there are gaps in the metal work which allows water in there (making the plug absolutely pointless..) so rust can collect inside there.

If there is rust in there then obviously it would need attention, and have the gaps welded up to stop any further water getting in there

[Sam44]

I'm on the Cusco 1.5 rs. What a diff it is very sensitive locks quite easily/very reactive which will lead to accelerated tyre wear. 

after I ran a glanza none lsd box for a few month. Horrible box!!! Over geared. Lsd is curtainly needed for good launch after around 160hp (tyre size/compound comes in here as well). The only issue i have with the Cusco lsd unit is as soon as I let off the accelerator (hard acceleration) it unlocks, lending to instant understeer. This can catch you out when racing close quarters. You have to correct before you let off which is like predicting the future. Haha. But it's certainly worth the money. I could not run a fast car with out a good lsd unit. 

fantastic work. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Sam44

[RoyalDutchie]

3 hours ago, Sam44 said:

I'm on the Cusco 1.5 rs. What a diff it is very sensitive locks quite easily/very reactive which will lead to accelerated tyre wear. 

after I ran a glanza none lsd box for a few month. Horrible box!!! Over geared. Lsd is curtainly needed for good launch after around 160hp (tyre size/compound comes in here as well). The only issue i have with the Cusco lsd unit is as soon as I let off the accelerator (hard acceleration) it unlocks, lending to instant understeer. This can catch you out when racing close quarters. You have to correct before you let off which is like predicting the future. Haha. But it's certainly worth the money. I could not run a fast car with out a good lsd unit. 

fantastic work. 

The cusco lsds are very good unit, but overkill for me. A helical one with worm gears is the one for me pretty sure I wont be going to track often. Pairing it with a set of good compound tires and a bit wider wheels and tires than I have now should do the trick. The thing you describe sound like the dreaded mr2 snap oversteer😅.

Thinking about getting a set of jr3 (7j) wheels with custom pcd so it isn't multi pcd like most and the example below.

9 hours ago, Trevstar said:

Please do, I've always loved them, I don't think I will ever know any other car as intimately as these and I enjoy seeing them being restored to a good standard! 

Also, you see where the rear passenger pockets are, pop them out if you can and have a look down into the sills as I'm seeing a lot of them starting to suffer from rust in that area just in front of the rear wheels. If you look underneath, there should be an oval rubber plug there, get yourself a cheap borescope snake camera that you can plug into your phone (unless you already have one) and have a poke around inside where that oval plug is, or pop out the plug and feel around inside with your finger. You'll notice that around where that plug is there are gaps in the metal work which allows water in there (making the plug absolutely pointless..) so rust can collect inside there.

If there is rust in there then obviously it would need attention, and have the gaps welded up to stop any further water getting in there

Checked the sills with a borescope and the outer and inner sills have some major corrosion. Already have the new outer sills the inner ones are going to take some effort to get them up to spec depending if it is surface or rot. Never knew about the plug near the rear wheels I'll check if I can find it. Are there 2 or is it just one?

[Sam44]

Yeh for road that diff will be great. the Cusco unit is abit jerky in the cold on full lock. But what a diff with the c60 box its an amazing combo. I can launch the car in 2nd gear and hit 60mph. We recorded crazy mph times. This is how I ripped to rear gearbox mount off the c160 box. Hard launches. 

With the c60 box in it now it's topping out at around 55mph in 2nd. But this box is much stronger. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Sam44

[Trevstar]

Those are some lovely wheels! 

There should be a plug on each side

I'll see if I can find a picture, but the part number should be 90950-01259 (x2) 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Trevstar

[RoyalDutchie]

40 minutes ago, Sam44 said:

Yeh for road that diff will be great. the Cusco unit is abit jerky in the cold on full lock. But what a diff with the c60 box its an amazing combo. I can launch the car in 2nd gear and hit 60mph. We recorded crazy mph times. This is how I ripped to rear gearbox mount off the c160 box. Hard launches. 

With the c60 box in it now it's topping out at around 55mph in 2nd. But this box is much stronger. 

I guess you fitted the Cusco diff inside the c60 with the custom crown gear? Probably worth to put some pics and info on your build about it.

2 minutes ago, Trevstar said:

Those are some lovely wheels! 

There should be a plug on each side

I'll see if I can find a picture, but the part number is 90950-01259 (x2) 

Thx mate I'll check the parts site and see where they are before going under the car and spending ages on the cold ground. JR is the only brand here which makes decent reps and jap styled wheels,, probably have them this year.

[Sam44]

No the c60 and c160 have the same bolt fitment as the 4efte c52 and c56. The Cusco lsd unit is second hand off these (out of a glanza box). Only used twice on track and not to any kind of kick ass level. 

It's the C63 and c64 2zz 6 speeds that need the crown gear I had made they just need case hardening. These boxes are stronger again they have a better syncro setup and wider gears, mainly the final drive gear. 

The lsd unit you have here is a great bit of kit. I believe it's a trd brand.

these cars definitely need lsd. It's a game changer. Worth every penny. 

Really nice wheels. 

Doing Hard launches on the c160 also killed the clutch springs on my last clutch. I'm trying to get good times with out agresive launches now. 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Sam44

[Trevstar]

4 hours ago, Trevstar said:

Those are some lovely wheels! 

There should be a plug on each side

I'll see if I can find a picture, but the part number should be 90950-01259 (x2) 

This is the best I could find, sorry for the quality:

 

It comes under 'floor side member' on the parts diagram, there's one on each side

 

The view looking down into the sill from where the rear passenger side pockets would be:

 

The view looking inside the cut out in the above picture (you can see where the oval rubber plug is):

 

And these are the gaps in the metal work I mentioned around where the plug is (you can clearly see daylight coming through):

Edited May 2, 2021 by Trevstar

[RoyalDutchie]

14 hours ago, Sam44 said:

No the c60 and c160 have the same bolt fitment as the 4efte c52 and c56. The Cusco lsd unit is second hand off these (out of a glanza box). Only used twice on track and not to any kind of kick ass level. 

It's the C63 and c64 2zz 6 speeds that need the crown gear I had made they just need case hardening. These boxes are stronger again they have a better syncro setup and wider gears, mainly the final drive gear. 

The lsd unit you have here is a great bit of kit. I believe it's a trd brand.

these cars definitely need lsd. It's a game changer. Worth every penny. 

Really nice wheels. 

Doing Hard launches on the c160 also killed the clutch springs on my last clutch. I'm trying to get good times with out agresive launches now. 

 

Ah I see now. Not to easy to find one but still a lot more floating about here in compression with the c52/56. Did you have to modify the shifter cables to fit the selector arms on the other side of the box?

Yup it is the oem TRD diff from a mr2 spyder etc which is made for the bigger crown gear for future use. Do have a TRD one for the c56 gearbox if plans do not work out the way I see them.

@Trevstar Thanks. It is pretty clear where they are located I'll check them this week even though I'm 100% sure they have rust there as well. Will be sorted when the outer sill is replaced. Going to be a joy to work on for sure😟.

[Sam44]

The ep91 shifter cables will fit but the bracket that holds the cables to the gearbox (directly above the Speedo drive) needs moding. I've not got to this point yet. It will need to be at the installation point to do this. 

There's also to inner drivshaft CV joint cup we discussed earlier in the year that could make the install much easier. 

This will be a job for next year I recon. As soon as I'm back Im collecting the paseo and getting the ep91 starbo to a high level + dynoed. As well as send some items over to you (first job). 

It's really great to build these cars along side all you guys. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Sam44

[RoyalDutchie]

23 minutes ago, Sam44 said:

The ep91 shifter cables will fit but the bracket that holds the cables to the gearbox (directly above the Speedo drive) needs moding. I've not got to this point yet. It will need to be at the installation point to do this. 

There's also to inner drivshaft CV joint cup we discussed earlier in the year that could make the install much easier. 

This will be a job for next year I recon. As soon as I'm back Im collecting the paseo and getting the ep91 starbo to a high level + dynoed. As well as send some items over to you (first job). 

It's really great to build these cars along side all you guys. 

Do like the community as well, proper friendly lads.

Ye no problem, I think I'll go and test boxes somewhere in Juli if there is time. C56 etc are impossible to rebuild these days I guess. The C63 should still be plenty I think? They are used by lotuses so a bit higher change of lasting rebuild supplies I hope and a few more gearbox option which all handle about the same as the C56 but with a bit better synchro's and ratios. We still have some paseos here so could help you with a few parts if you are struggling to get them.

[burty]

4 hours ago, RoyalDutchie said:

Ah I see now. Not to easy to find one but still a lot more floating about here in compression with the c52/56. Did you have to modify the shifter cables to fit the selector arms on the other side of the box?

Yup it is the oem TRD diff from a mr2 spyder etc which is made for the bigger crown gear for future use. Do have a TRD one for the c56 gearbox if plans do not work out the way I see them.

@Trevstar Thanks. It is pretty clear where they are located I'll check them this week even though I'm 100% sure they have rust there as well. Will be sorted when the outer sill is replaced. Going to be a joy to work on for sure😟.

When my sills get cut open next month il post some pics up I'm in same boat my outers are gone full length inside but only look like it's first 6 inch from the outside , I've no doubts inners will want some attention aswell

[RoyalDutchie]

On 5/3/2021 at 6:34 PM, burty said:

When my sills get cut open next month il post some pics up I'm in same boat my outers are gone full length inside but only look like it's first 6 inch from the outside , I've no doubts inners will want some attention aswell

Thanks burty. Pretty sure that would be very useful for anyone who is wondering what the inner sills look like, will be a huge help for me for sure. Would make it much easier for a metalworker to determine how much work it is to get them fixed.

Edited May 7, 2021 by RoyalDutchie

[RoyalDutchie]

Update time.

Changed a few bolts with new oem bolts, also replaced the shifter knob I had and inserted the Toyota cover I had laying about.

Refurbed the bumper crash bar(fitted wrong in the initial foto fixed later😞)

Starter wasn't really working right cleaned it and replaced the brushed even though they still seemed to have plenty of life left. Pretty cheap at Toyota for 2 euros each so not a major expense. Removed the start without jacking the car up, took some time to remove it and lots of weird angles with the hands due to restricted space. Not really a job I would like to do again anytime soon. Reinstalling it took some time as well

Took it for a spin after fitting everything man these cars are a joy to drive.

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by RoyalDutchie

[Sam44]

oh yeh the cars are back out. 

[RoyalDutchie]

On 6/14/2021 at 1:38 PM, Sam44 said:

oh yeh the cars are back out. 

They sure are, weather been great the past weeks.

[RoyalDutchie]

Ciggy update time:

The JDM spec do not have a illuminated ring around the 12v ciggy lighter like the EU spec etc. So I decided to install a EU spec one into the glanza. Pretty straight forward they are 100% compatible fitment wise. Just requires a extra wired to be inserted inside the loom which is then tapped into the interior light circuit.

The light should be brighter in the car, a led bulb is also an option for the future.

Next update I'll show the installation/loom making prosses voor tapping it into the interior light circuit. To be continued.

Fog light switch also coming up, with a rear engine mount replacement and timing belt job.

Maybe some updates where I clean up the cut loom with a set of pnp loom for tapping into the wires instead of cutting/crimping the wires. We'll see.

Edited June 25, 2021 by RoyalDutchie

[RoyalDutchie]

Car got a fresh MOT just now.

Received the rear fog switch today, came without the silicone caps around the bulbs so had to install them myself. Switch is ready to be wired in once I receive the connectors, also looking for a connector near the ciggy lighter to make a loom for the the illuminated ring around it. Thinking about using the hazard switch if it is illuminated since the climate control plug is a bit involved.

[Sam44]

just having a read threw now. 

ill soon have some things coming your way. 

how are you and the family

[RoyalDutchie]

While checking for a loom to plug into for tapping the ign light a discovered that my hazard bulb was blown, now replaced with a new one and in working order.

discovered the glanzas don't seem to be using the bulb for the rear defog switch when it comes to interior lighting. After some more digging it seemed that Toyota also blanked of the switch so even if the bulb is lit it isn't shown.

Not sure if all glanzas have this, but pretty sure this is the case since the loom is also not prepped to work with interior lighting.

[RoyalDutchie]

On 7/6/2021 at 5:20 PM, Sam44 said:

just having a read threw now. 

ill soon have some things coming your way. 

how are you and the family

Very exited for the parts.

I'm fine, haven't had any issues yet with everything going on. Just having a few weeks of now.