Claymore Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) I've installed the det 3 in the Starlet today (97 model EP91 4efe) and made a plug n play harness also. I followed the diagram below (splicing the no3 pullup wire [2k to12v] into the no9 ignition wire) found in the instruction manual. Configured the setup menu's but the car wouldn't start. I checked everything twice before and after install, returned everything back to stock and it ran. Re-installed the piggyback and harness. The software client said Ignition status: no synch. So I depinned the no3 wire from the piggyback plug and the car fired up instantly on the next try and ran well. So to make sure the diagram didn't mean add a 2k resistor from pin 3 to pin 9's wire I tried that and the car wouldn't start again. My question is: how has everyone else wired in their det 3 for ignition. With pullup connection or without? Currently I have the cut ignition wire (IGT) into the piggyback on 9 and out on 6? If I follow the instruction manual with the pullup connected the car won't run. Edited February 6, 2021 by Claymore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobSR Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 How have you wired the “crank” sensor in to the DET? I don’t use them but if you share how you’ve done it I can take a look for you. There should be no reason to use a pull-up on a starlet as the crank is VR, you usually wire this to the pins you talk about to modify the timing rather than the IGT wire from how it reads; but if you overview how you’ve done the crank side I’m sure we can work it out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) i just had a quick look. this is how i would wire it in pin1 : +12v pin2 : to separate relay switch (2nd map) pin5 : IGN to 4efe ECU (break out signal), IGT toyota wire, white and black wire. pin9 : IGN to crank sensor (break out signal). adjust the dizzy 10deg advanced allows you adjustments on the ignition table. pin13 : map sensor wire (break out wire) pin17 : map sensor to ecu (break out wire) pin 11 : ground pin 16 : TPS signal (just to be data logged) also intake air temp sensor is another sensor to log data from. (very helpfull data) also egt sensor. there is just your PWM to sort hope this helps. ive just looked threw the konfiguraja #1 c20xe looks the closest match to the 4efe setup. set up parameters. setup tables tab in the software fuel table analog in #1 = modify #1 load = analog in #1 correction #1 = disable correction #2 = disable ignition load = analog in #1 correction #1 disable correction #2 disable scale configuration analoge #1 linear voltage scale 0-5v, ignition configuration ignition input type hall effect or optical sensor maximum rpm 6000 (for the 4efe) number of signals per 720 = 4 maxmium retard = 50deg Edited February 7, 2021 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Claymore Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) On 2/6/2021 at 11:18 PM, RobSR said: How have you wired the “crank” sensor in to the DET? I don’t use them but if you share how you’ve done it I can take a look for you. There should be no reason to use a pull-up on a starlet as the crank is VR, you usually wire this to the pins you talk about to modify the timing rather than the IGT wire from how it reads; but if you overview how you’ve done the crank side I’m sure we can work it out. Currently the NE and NE- aren't involved. Not tapped into and not intercepted. The Det 3 only has one ignition input and so you have to choose. I used the IGT signal as it seemed to fit with the diagrams relating to ignition module controlled by Toyota ECU found in the 4efe and the advice in this post: I also checked other piggy back wiring instructions (EMU) and it always said intercept the IGT and PIM to modify (4efte), splice into the other wires for reference values!?!? The analogue inputs are for 0-5v sensors i.e MAP, iat, tps etc. I am modifying the Toyota MAP signal which will be the glanza 2 bar sensor for fuelling changes. I am using the Toyota map signal as the load signal vs rpm also on the fuelling table. Current wiring = pin1 : switched +12v (spliced to Toyota ECU switched wire) pin3 : Pullup spliced to 9 (currently depinned as won't run if connected to det 3 plug) pin6 : Modified IGT signal to ignition module (intercept) pin9 : IGT signal from Toyota ECU (intercept) pin 11 : ground (splice to Toyota ECU ground) pin13 : MAP sensor signal wire into det3 (intercept) pin14 : No wire connected (Internal MAP sensor of DET 3 is hard wired on board) pin15 : Wideband O2 signal input. pin16 : IAT signal (spliced to Toyota sensor signal wire) pin17 : Modified MAP sensor signal wire to Toyota ECU (intercept) pin18 : Shift light (wired to LED) pin19: Additional earth required when using power outputs pin18 and 20 (spliced with pin11 to Toyota ECU ground) pin20: Boost control solenoid (wired to boost solenoid) I do have other unterminated wires in place for other analogues, boost control and shift light etc. but these are not the concern currently. The wire options are: IGT (ignition timing to ignition module), IGF (Ignition feedback - not of any use), NE and NE-. The wiring diagrams for VR are: There is also optical / hall diagrams or SAW EDIS. Edited February 9, 2021 by Claymore Added new inputs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Claymore Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) Stupid double post Edited February 7, 2021 by Claymore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobSR Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 19 minutes ago, Claymore said: Currently the NE and NE- aren't involved. Not tapped into and not intercepted. The Det 3 only has one ignition input and so you have to choose. I used the IGT signal as it seemed to fit with the diagrams relating to ignition module controlled by Toyota ECU found in the 4efe and the advice in this post: I also checked other piggy back wiring instructions (EMU) and it always said intercept the IGT and PIM to modify (4efte), splice into the other wires for reference values!?!? The analogue inputs are for 0-5v sensors i.e MAP, iat, tps etc. I am modifying the Toyota MAP signal which will be the glanza 2 bar sensor for fuelling changes. I am using the Toyota map signal as the load signal vs rpm also on the fuelling table. Current wiring = pin1 : switched +12v (spliced to Toyota ECU switched wire) pin3 : spliced to 9 (currently depinned as won't run if connected to det 3 plug) pullup pin6 : Modified IGT signal to ignition module (intercept) pin9 : IGT signal from Toyota ECU (intercept) pin13 : MAP sensor signal wire into det3 (intercept) pin17 : Modified MAP sensor signal wire to Toyota ECU (intercept) pin 11 : ground (splice to Toyota ECU ground) I do have other unterminated wires in place for other analogues, boost control and shift light etc. but these are not the concern currently. The wire options are: IGT (ignition timing to ignition module), IGF (Ignition feedback - not of any use), NE and NE-. The wiring diagrams for VR are: There is also optical / hall diagrams or SAW EDIS. Yes don’t use IGF this is just a pointless Toyota thing that’s not needed. Id disregard the IGT method and wire it as diagram 1 on the VR example, this makes more sense; you also won’t need the pull-up wire for this. As said I don’t use them so it would be interesting to see how it’s been done on people who do, but thats the way I’d try it. You can try the IGT route, if it works without the pull-up leave it off, this will most likely just be to determine the switch logic of the TTL signal from the stock ECU I.e whether it needs to go 0-5v or 5v-0v to trigger the igniter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Claymore Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 13 minutes ago, RobSR said: Yes don’t use IGF this is just a pointless Toyota thing that’s not needed. Id disregard the IGT method and wire it as diagram 1 on the VR example, this makes more sense; you also won’t need the pull-up wire for this. As said I don’t use them so it would be interesting to see how it’s been done on people who do, but thats the way I’d try it. You can try the IGT route, if it works without the pull-up leave it off, this will most likely just be to determine the switch logic of the TTL signal from the stock ECU I.e whether it needs to go 0-5v or 5v-0v to trigger the igniter Currently (IGT, no pullup) the car runs, has rpm signal (700rpm at hot idle) has ignition state as synchronized and moves the cursor around the map when throttle is applied. I haven't yet tried to adjust anything in the ignition table. Might be best to attach a timing light, pull out 10 deg at idle and see if the timing marks go from 10 btdc to 0 deg on pulley. At least I'll know if the timing is actually moving! Also, if I were to go the VR wiring route, does it matter which wire is used? NE or NE-? I'm fine with mechanicals but this is my first foray into engine management. Couldn't find any info on a google search about what others had done, there must be plenty of users out there so hopefully people will want to share. (PM if you want to) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) let us know how you get on it will help others. also which is the closest configure reference if possible. ive just had a look threw the setup tables and edited my first post with more information. Edited February 7, 2021 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Claymore Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) On 2/7/2021 at 9:25 AM, Sam44 said: setup tables tab in the software fuel table analog in #1 = modify #1 load = analog in #1 correction #1 = disable correction #2 = disable ignition load = analog in #1 correction #1 disable correction #2 disable scale configuration analoge #1 linear voltage scale 0-5v, ignition configuration ignition input type hall effect or optical sensor maximum rpm 6000 (for the 4efe) number of signals per 720 = 4 maxmium retard = 50deg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psa4l2wEOYs Setup I'm using for det3+, IGT (currently, may go VR) and Glanza 2 bar MAP fuel table modify= analog in #1 (Glanza 2 bar MAP sensor) load = analog in #1 (Glanza 2 bar MAP sensor) correction #1 = disable correction #2 = disable ignition load = analog in #1 (Glanza 2 bar MAP sensor) correction #1 = disable correction #2 = disable scale configuration analogue #1 = vw 200kp (2bar map. same scale as glanza sensor (I think) changes the table scale to bar instead of 0-5v. Need to compare to actual boost gauge to check they match) analogue #2 = Det3_with_400kpa_MAP (This is the inbuilt map sensor that is hard wired to analogue 2 on the board. Don't try to use analogue input 2 as it doesn't work! None of this is mentioned in the manual. Had to call customer services to find out which input the inbuilt MAP was on and how to choose this as a datalogging / load / modify signal) analogue#3 = AEM AFR (I will have the wideband O2 sensor signal connected here for datalogging, might be able to use it as a correction on the fuel / ignition table also !??) analogue#4 = 0-5v scale (IAT sensor signal input for data logging. Currently using generic voltage scale until I can work out the calibration volts vs deg C. Might be able to use it as a correction on the fuel / ignition table also !??) ignition configuration Ignition mode: Retard a single signal (for IGT. Not sure for VR) Ignition input type: Hall effect or optical (for IGT. This will change if going VR.) maximum rpm 6500 (I've read that 6200 is redline for the 4efe, managed to rev mine to 6200 last night hence the 6500 limit for tables) number of signals per 720 = 4 maximum retard = 50deg (maximum possible in the det3 afaik. Need to be careful how much you use as it may end up firing down another plug lead.) Leaving the analogue input / output configurations for the minute but these will be "sized" as appropriate for the sensor range the engine actually uses when its up and running with turbo. Don't need to clamp the output so probably leave as is. Hope this helps. Some of this is from the budget starlet turbo build video on youtube so thanks to that guy for helping already also! Edited April 7, 2022 by Claymore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 great info let us know how it goes. have you got a timing gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Claymore Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) On 2/7/2021 at 12:13 PM, Sam44 said: great info let us know how it goes. have you got a timing gun. Yes, have got a timing gun. Might as well link these vids here (try and get some sort of database): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z5hnVmlyuI Edited April 7, 2022 by Claymore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Claymore Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Sam44 said: ive just had a look threw the setup tables and edited my first post with more information. Good shout on the IAT sensor for logging. I only have the Analogue input #4 left empty so could splice into it for the signal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 im going to get another simple tdo4l 4efe done for a friend as soon as i can this year on the det3. so all this will come in very handy. im also going to try and setup the output of the original map sensor to accept boost pressure like i did on the turboed civic d16y8. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Claymore Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Sam44 said: im going to get another simple tdo4l 4efe done for a friend as soon as i can this year on the det3. so all this will come in very handy. im also going to try and setup the output of the original map sensor to accept boost pressure like i did on the turboed civic d16y8. I did think about the 1bar MAP sensor thing, not sure it can work if used for load. I'll put a post on the below thread to try and keep this one on topic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 yeh i get you. if the det3 map sensor does not determine load like the aem sensor does. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leonidas127 Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 Any updates on how to connect ignition ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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