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Air intake for n/a

RoSsSr16v

By RoSsSr16v,
in N/A E-Series Engine Discussions

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RoSsSr16v

RoSsSr16v

Posted
Posted

Hey everyone, ive recently fitted a rolla inlet mani and im in need of a good air filter...

do you have any reccomendations on the best brand of filter and prices??

i have a universal induction kit from halfords atm but ive been told its no good (sh*t)

any help is v.much appreciated ;)

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keirz

keirz

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some may disagree mate but all filters are pretty much the same, be it expensive or cheap theres not a great deal between them in terms of filtration properties and flow rates. some are obviously more free flowing and filter better but the difference is not massive. so your cheapo filter will prob do the job well enought, but being in the back of the engine bay it will suffer from heat soak.

i find what worked best for me was a encased filter, ie carbon bmc or bmc replica kit or failing that an upgraded panal filter, ie trd or k+n. this will ensure that the filter will not suffer from heat soak, which increases intake temps and lowers performance. this kind of filter will give you consistanly good gains.

an open filter may work extremly well on a cold day but as soon as the temp warms up it can actually loose you performance. although they do sound cool. ;)

im stuck in the same position with my glanza. my initial thoughts was a trd panel filter for consistant performance, but after trail fitting an open filter it sounded immense.

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Jozinobi

Jozinobi

Posted
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BMC CDA FTMFW!!! ;)

Its also how your intake route is setup... that will make or break your performance gains or losses.

You are damn right about the goodness of bmc nangle having tasted it yourself... :p

Joz

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jimjom

jimjom

Posted
Posted
Hey everyone, ive recently fitted a rolla inlet mani and im in need of a good air filter...

do you have any reccomendations on the best brand of filter and prices??

i have a universal induction kit from halfords atm but ive been told its no good (sh*t)

any help is v.much appreciated ;)

hi

i've got a blitz cone filter which cost about £160 but well worth the money tho!

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scutch0

scutch0

Posted
Posted

uprated panel filter is the best option in my opinion, at the banzai thrash i ran faster on my first run with the standard airbox with k&n filter than on my second run with my ractive induction kit.

but if youre going for a induction kit, i'd go for a green or apexi if you can find one!

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scutch0

scutch0

Posted
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ah you see thats where your wrong joz.

i have tried about 12+ different air filter combinations on my old n/a, including a carbon enclosed style filter and feed pipe, and i think it didnt make much difference, yes it was better at high revs with the rolla mani, but i hated only having power for only half the revrange.

by far the best after market air filter option i used was my relocated ractive filter to the front of the engine bay, but even then i went back to the stock airbox.

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Jozinobi

Jozinobi

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Im not going to get into a debate Rich but I must put some genuine points across ;)

The 'carbon style' enclosed filters do not have the same characteristics as the proper bmc cda, the filter element goes all round inside the bmc cda as well as a patent contour design to help airflow turbulence whereas the copy has a universal shitty small cone. As well as the bmc cda being real carbon fibre that has better heat proofing properties than a universal carbon copy jobby which of course I have also tried Open filters are not the way, altho they make a nice sound they suck in all the engine bay heat that will lose you performance no matter the quality of the filtration or filter element. On higher powered cars this is less worrying (think of twin hks mushrooms on a twin turbo), but for us ep n/a we need all the cold, dense air that we can get!. You also said when u tried the carbon copy it didnt make much difference but did you give the ecu enough time to re-adjust itself to the new setup and more incoming air ratio?

It is this difference that allows a greater volume of airflow. You know yourself I've dabbled with the best of the induction setups. Then again with myself now running the 5efe, optimum breathing mods and decat, perhaps Im over zealous as the benefits Im getting are more worthwhile due to the already improved power and torque over the 4efe. But fair enough if you got good results from the R-Active relocation, I found the carbon copy with the cold air feed directed to the front bumper worked wonders and power and torque as well as ease of accel was noticeably improved.

You forget we are tuning a small economy engine, so the power will always be different throughout the rev range, not constant as you would lose a lot of economy. Think of vtec and why its not always constantly on, would you rather the same power all the way?... I don't think so. My power kicks in fully hard at 4krpm on wot till 6200k redline. You can see Ross, being a serious n/a tuner myself I solely recommend the bmc cda, and also Phil is ordering one, doesn't that tell you something? :unsure:

Everyone is different and thats what makes us unique. Each to their own and all the best with your induction kit decision.

Joz

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Nanglebadger

Nanglebadger

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for an initial step i would recommend the K&N panel filter, i was over the moon with the subtle improvements this brought me.

however the time is nearing for me to upgrade to somethin with a bit more potential for performance gains as my car should be gettin a look at by a certain Jay, the aim is obviously a few more horsies. im also likin the sound of this throttle body and mani work that si has found, combined i think i could quite well for an n/a. my experience of the BMC CDA comes from my dads car where it had a distinct power gain in the region of perhaps 6-8bhp - this is not a gospel figure of course its just the gains we felt.

Phil.

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RobSR

RobSR

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uprated panel filter is the best option in my opinion, at the banzai thrash i ran faster on my first run with the standard airbox with k&n filter than on my second run with my ractive induction kit.

but if youre going for a induction kit, i'd go for a green or apexi if you can find one!

ill think ill agree with that aswell, the HKS panel on my bros car is awesome an has better top end than an induction kit.... and rich's drag times at the banzai thrash obviously prove that an enclosed high-flow panel filter is the best...

Rob

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scutch0

scutch0

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Im not going to get into a debate Rich but I must put some genuine points across ;)

The 'carbon style' enclosed filters do not have the same characteristics as the proper bmc cda, the filter element goes all round inside the bmc cda as well as a patent contour design to help airflow turbulence whereas the copy has a universal shitty small cone. As well as the bmc cda being real carbon fibre that has better heat proofing properties than a universal carbon copy jobby which of course I have also tried Open filters are not the way, altho they make a nice sound they suck in all the engine bay heat that will lose you performance no matter the quality of the filtration or filter element. On higher powered cars this is less worrying (think of twin hks mushrooms on a twin turbo), but for us ep n/a we need all the cold, dense air that we can get!. You also said when u tried the carbon copy it didnt make much difference but did you give the ecu enough time to re-adjust itself to the new setup and more incoming air ratio?

It is this difference that allows a greater volume of airflow. You know yourself I've dabbled with the best of the induction setups. Then again with myself now running the 5efe, optimum breathing mods and decat, perhaps Im over zealous as the benefits Im getting are more worthwhile due to the already improved power and torque over the 4efe. But fair enough if you got good results from the R-Active relocation, I found the carbon copy with the cold air feed directed to the front bumper worked wonders and power and torque as well as ease of accel was noticeably improved.

You forget we are tuning a small economy engine, so the power will always be different throughout the rev range, not constant as you would lose a lot of economy. Think of vtec and why its not always constantly on, would you rather the same power all the way?... I don't think so. My power kicks in fully hard at 4krpm on wot till 6200k redline. You can see Ross, being a serious n/a tuner myself I solely recommend the bmc cda, and also Phil is ordering one, doesn't that tell you something? :unsure:

Everyone is different and thats what makes us unique. Each to their own and all the best with your induction kit decision.

Joz

i see what your saying joz but overall a air filter is designed to do one thing, filter air.

the way it does this makes little difference imo, as you said this may make a big difference on a bigger engine where you can reap the benefits but on a n/a 1.3 it really wont make a huge difference. (the different filter materials make a difference however)

i agree that for a small engine you should be trying to get as much cold air as possable, so the enclosed filter do help, but as ive previously stated i wanted to test the difference between a relocated filter (having air rammed in) at the banzai thrash and my findings were as i expected (if you read the feature they actually got it the wrong way round my fastest run was with the standard airbox).

imo to make best use of the 4efe (for me) was to stick with the standard airbox with a uprated panel filter, it provided the low down torque needed with power pulling close to the redline. afterall, toyota spend god knows how much designing that box for overall performance i'd like to think they'd know how to get the best out of it. an uprated panel just gives it that additional airflow.

the revrange the 4efe has available is not really enough to make use of a induction kit.

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Jozinobi

Jozinobi

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I agree with most of your comments Rich, but its not just about the air filter itself, yes the purpose is to clean the air coming in, but the overall setup is also important and that is where Im getting at, its the mouth of your cars intake/breathing system and how it takes it in is important, yes the standard airbox is great with the k&n panel, but the air volume it takes in is minimal and crap and not even cold. I find with a setup where a higher volume of dense cold air is introduced to the intake, there is greater potential all round. Its not just about which type of filter is better or whatever, its the setup and its potential and of course gives excellent gains you would not see from the panel filter.

I must contradict tho, that Im running the 5efe so I guess I will not go on about it anymore as there are obviously differences that you will get running the same setup on the 1.3 and the 1.5. I am however using the 4efe revrange of 6200rpm and its fine and plenty to make use of an induction kit.

Joz

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scutch0

scutch0

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yeah, i see where your coming from joz.

i think one of the most beneficial setups would be the standard airbox with a much larger more direct feed with a performance panel filter, a bored out larger throttlebody, corolla inlet mani and a rev limit of 7k.

then you would see some good gains. as i personally believe that the 4efe's 6200rpm limit is a bit too low with the rolla mani & airfilter.

but each to their own. just realised we've completely hijacked this thread. sorry guys. :unsure: ;)

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scutch0

scutch0

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:) well i try phil, you need to learn some DIYness!

@ idrees: ive been told you can replace the crystal that controls the rev limit, there was a extensive writeup on the tercel forums a good few years back... but ive no idea where it is now.

the other option is to get a rolla one working in there.

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