TD04L turbos from different cars

[TurboTD04]

Hello been looking on eBay at TD04L's and have noticed that the 3 main types are ones from Subaru's SAAB's and Volvo's. Was just wondering if there is any difference in these?

Thanks

[5e colin]

there is yes the mounting flanges are aal difrent mate we use subaru 1s on the starlets

and there is many difrent sizes to

[TurboTD04]

Ok so apart from the flanges could you get a turbo off a Saab or Volvo that is the same as a Subaru one? Only reason I ask is because there seems to be a big price difference between the Subaru ones and the other 2

[ste91]

"TD04L" on it's own doesn't mean much, there will be a second part to it i.e. TD04-13T, TD04-16T etc... which relates to compressor wheel size.

[mikey4410]

i wondered about this also, so they have bigger wheels on some of the td04L ?

[ste91]

Have a look at this site:

http://www.stealth316.com/2-turboguide.htm#c

Some more here and TF035's:

http://www.ausubaru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10510

[AdamB]

You can use any td04 you want but you'll have to get the correct flange on the manifold to suit. John over on TGTT uses one from a Volvo

[TurboTD04]

Ok what compression wheel size would people recommend for a starlet set up then?

[ste91]

Ok what compression wheel size would people recommend for a starlet set up then?

It depends what your power goals are and how much boost you want to run.

Read this:

http://www.lovehorsepower.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4&Itemid=88

Then check this:

http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/maps/

[TurboTD04]

Ok this looks pretty complicated, bit of light reading for me this evening me thinks haha

[AdamB]

Compressor maps are all well and good but you need to find one for a td04, and besides the compressor wheel is only half the story.

[TurboTD04]

Fell like I've opened a can of worms here haha and before this I just thought a td04 was a td04

[ste91]

Compressor maps are all well and good but you need to find one for a td04, and besides the compressor wheel is only half the story.

There are plenty of TD04 compressor maps on the net, there's a few in those links I posted above.

Fell like I've opened a can of worms here haha and before this I just thought a td04 was a td04

Using the calculations off the link I posted, for a 4EFTE, I've forgot what the rev limit is so I've just used 7k but you can change it:

Lets say boost is 1.2 bar as an example, 1.2 bar converted to psi is 17.4:

14.7 + 17.4, divided by 14.7 = 2.18 but lets round it up to 2.2 to make it easier:

1.3 x 7000 x 90 x 2.2 divided by 5660 = 318 CFM

So now you need to convert CFM as the maps for the TD04's in the link I posted above aren't in CFM, it tells you on that page that you need to convert it but I just used google to calculate it:

318 cfm =

0.150079287 (m^3) / s

So just say it's 0.15

Now you can stick this on the map, find 2.2 on the Y axis and 0.15 on the X axis and there you go.

Have a good read of the links I posted it's complicated at first but simple once you've done it.

But don't take this as gospel as I'm not an expert on this at all I'm only going by what I've researched online but it seemed to work fine for me when I was looking at some compressor maps last week.

Edited September 18, 2013 by ste91

[AdamB]

Thats correct but you need to know what your looking for when plotting, whether its for best spool, max efficiency etc. And like I say its only half the story, the compressor airflow is proportional to turbine size and velocity.

Edited September 18, 2013 by AdamB

[ste91]

Not to sound like a prick but I don't see what your point is?

After a few hours of research and a bit of common sense (or rather, TD04's are already widely used on Starlets, so they're a pretty safe bet regardless of which one you go for) it's not difficult to decide on a suitable turbo.

The only other thing to keep in mind when looking for TD04's is be aware of the turbine housing which is shown by the last number in the name for example: TD04-13T-6 is the WRX one off the top of my head, but there's also a TD04-13T-4 which has a smaller turbine housing and is used on some diesel engines.

So "TD04" on it's own doesn't mean a lot, "TD04-13T" is more useful but only when you have the full name "TD04-13T-6" will you know what you're really getting.

[AdamB]

Your the one who went through the calculations, so whats your point? My point is simple, compressor map means nothing unless you know what your looking for and even then they don't mean too much because theres too many variables it doesn't take into account, CR, air temp ect. Best and only way to plot on a map is to use a speed sensor.

There are many varients of the td04 but a few have different flanges, guy over on TGGT has used quite a few of them all different sizes.

They have been tried and tested, so its not much of a problem to choose.

[ste91]

I was trying to help the lad who posted the question.

What do you suggest then seeing as you're clearly an expert on the subject?

[AdamB]

The normal Td04-13T I think it is? Will serve 99% of the people well, but it depends what the lads after really and his budget.

Lets not go there on me being an "expert"

[ste91]

The normal Td04-13T I think it is? Will serve 99% of the people well, but it depends what the lads after really and his budget.

Lets not go there on me being an "expert"

Well you say that compressor maps mean nothing, why not provide us with the rest of the information we need instead of just saying it means nothing?

And if they really do mean nothing, then why are they so widely used as a means of determining whether a turbo will be suitable for your power goals?

[AdamB]

The only thing needed to know to achieve your power goal is if the compressor will flow the correct volume of air, but like I say it depends on the compression ratio, fuel used, air temp, fuel temp etc. If you want to get really anal then saying a turbo will flow 320 CFM, depending on the friction factor of the intercooler piping used and the pressure drop of the core you'll see no where near that at the intake manifold and you'll have to work the turbo even harder to supply enough air.

Am sure we all know how turbo's work by now, so if you can rotate the turbine wheel faster it will rotate the compressor wheel faster meaning more air flow, if the turbine wheel is larger in size it can flow a greater mass of gas. This isn't something noted on compressor map, one reason why I said the best way is to use a turbo speed sensor to know where to look on a compressor map to find out exactly where you are on the map rather than a theoretical calculation.

Here's an example of something useful for the turbine side :

http://www.atpturbo.com/root/maps/gt28rsturbine.htm

The smaller turbine flows 253 CFM, where as the larger .86 will flow 300 CFM.

Compressor maps do work, to an extent, but I always take the information published with a pinch of salt.

I'll take a look at the TD04-13G compressor map from the link you posted.

Here it is at 1 bar of boost, it's 74% efficient. The red line is quite faint to see so apologies.

Now I'll find the turbo's max boost, I'll start with 1.4 bar as this is the most common what people run on forged motors.

You can see its actually off the map, so it will be producing hot air and not efficient at all. Does that stop people from running a td04 at 1.4 bar? Certainly not, it still makes good power on a 4E, although anymore boost will be a waste.

I would try and find where it will spool 1 bar of boost, however I got down to 2800rpm and it was still on the flow map which we know full well isn't the case, a td04 doesn't make 1 bar till around the 3200-3400rpm mark on a 4E I believe?

Edited September 19, 2013 by AdamB

[TurboTD04]

I'm looking for about 250bhp with possibility of going up to 300bhp in the future and not to bothered about having a little lag I will have a read through this and try and get my head around it lol

[AdamB]

If you can justify it then a Garrett GT2560 would work really well! Spool like a td04 but make just a touch over 300bhp.

[Sam44]

Great information on this page, and this site really has everything needed.

This is how I work with turbos the adamb way. Calculations are all very well but the real world contributes to many factors.

by the time you've run the tests and found the errors it's time to buy another turbo. 

Tried and tested every time works for me. 

The manifold pressure\throttle pre and post pressure difference affects charge speed affecting torque output and peak hp. A!so as stated affecting the turbo shaft rpm. Brad's build using the corolla tubular inlet on a set of high lift cams with a midrange turbo is going to be a very potent mix and really tuning to a fine art. 

Then we come to temps. Temperature is a by-product of the internal combustion engine and gets into everything. We can either remove it using heat transfer or convert it. 

Fantastic stuff. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Sam44