1989martin1 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Well today I stripped down the 4e and found big end on piston 3 has spun, left some deep scoring on the shaft not even sure it's serviceable need some opinions Also noticed the piston is really discoloured compared to 1.2 and 4 the bore looks fine but I'm not sure wether to change the rod and piston anyway just in case Also can you buy the caps on the rods separately? I'd just like to change all of them the rods and Pistons have only covered 500 miles before the bottom end started knocking, oil pump looks alright too just wondering what my best options are from here? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Its goin to be hard to tell about the crank from a piccy.u need to take that to a reputable engineering frim and go from there.As for the piston being discoloured that could be a heat issue caused by a fault in injector.lastly caps/rods come balanced/matched and IDEALLY stay with the rod/cap they were intended for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Is it forged? Can't quite tell from those pics. Getting the piston and rod out the cylinder and grabbing some more piccies would give a better ideal to whats actually gone on. Crank looks bad but as Mikey has said its hard to tell from a pic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1989martin1 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 I know mate it's in pretty bad shape to be honest, I'm going to take it next week and see what they say, I'm not sure how the oils fed into each cylinder but is there a chance the bearing spinning has blocked the feed into the piston? I think I'll just buy another rod and piston for cylinder 3 just to be safe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) ruff as fuck a new crank is on order deffo was driving for a while look at the marks on the conrod how its worn away cant use cap from other rod the rod is for bin anyways !!!!!! Edited October 31, 2014 by 5e colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1989martin1 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Cheers Colin so new crank rod and piston it is Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I know mate it's in pretty bad shape to be honest, I'm going to take it next week and see what they say,I'm not sure how the oils fed into each cylinder but is there a chance the bearing spinning has blocked the feed into the piston?I think I'll just buy another rod and piston for cylinder 3 just to be safe Oil generally isn't fed mate, oil is only fed to the top end. The crank whips up the oil and splatters it everywhere to lubricate, and oil moisture is used to lubricate the piston pin. There are specific oil passages drilled through the crank which again makes use of oil being in the sump to lubricate the bearings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1989martin1 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 I see mate well I'll be getting a full new fuel rail and injectors if that was the cause originally it'll be hopefully gone by then, if the bearing has spun and blocked the hole would this explain the serious wear? I bought the engine to repair in the first place so it's all a learning curve this engine isn't going in a glanza though so I haven't a clue how they are built just learning off stuff on here and going from there Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Get the injectors flow tested mate, give you an idea but more of an oil supply issue to me.Could have blocked the feed hole but that could have been noted on strip down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1989martin1 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 It's already been apart once before I bought it so that wasn't an option, I'd also say it's an oil issue but it's a brand new pump that's on, everything was changed looking at it apart from the crank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Well there's the possibility it wasn't built back up correctly then with the oil clearances being too tight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1989martin1 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 To say it only did a few hundred miles make me question wether it was built correctly Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Possibly pointing that way and certainly not to rule out,. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patman Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Saw this on Facebook you said the person before only ran it 500 miles after rebuild? I suppose just questioning why at 500 miles? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Oil generally isn't fed mate, oil is only fed to the top end. The crank whips up the oil and splatters it everywhere to lubricate, and oil moisture is used to lubricate the piston pin. There are specific oil passages drilled through the crank which again makes use of oil being in the sump to lubricate the bearings. 100% true there is no oil pressure in the oil channels of the crank its only loubed by splash from the rotating crank to 2 posts above seems like it if oil pump was new and in working order then it seems the rebuild spec was neglected by a newby/rookie rebuilding the engine like adam said to smal of oil space/clearance will result in a fuck up of bearing example like a size 3 ( toyo ) bearing in size 2 slot could/wil cause it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Saw this on Facebook you said the person before only ran it 500 miles after rebuild? I suppose just questioning why at 500 miles? fuck that then there is another problem then wat i said above a wrong bearing wont last 500 miles ( 800km ) ( on conrod ) it would of shat itselve long before that ( unles a mains bearing that could go for 1000km before destroying engine !!!! ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1989martin1 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Yeah I got the reciepts to go with it for £1100 it's all brand new parts I'm thinking the oil clearance has probably been the issue got hot and expanded then messed everything up, the main bearings are all ok no scoring etc it's literally all in cylinder 3, I also need to get the cylinder bore measured as I think it's been rebored when it was built so if I need a replacement piston and ring it'll be a larger size Would lack of oil cause this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lukEp Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Sorry guys. I've not been on here for a while so some may not know me. Colin certainly does. Mate you've been fed/feeding missleading information there. The big ends and main receive oil pressure from the oil pump. The tolerance "gap" is there for the oil to stop the two surfaces touching (the bearing and the journal) if the oil pressure wasn't there the bearing would wear away in a matter of minutes let alone miles. You need to get yourself the facts right before you tell others the wrong information. It works the same on turbos the shaft sits on oil and stops the two surfaces touching which will cause friction..... heat...... then weld if it wasn't there!! Edited October 31, 2014 by lukEp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Sorry guys. I've not been on here for a while so some may not know me. Colin certainly does. Mate you've been fed/feeding missleading information there.The big ends and main receive oil pressure from the oil pump. The tolerance "gap" is there for the oil to stop the two surfaces touching (the bearing and the journal) if the oil pressure wasn't there the bearing would wear away in a matter of minutes let alone miles.You need to get yourself the facts right before you tell others the wrong information.It works the same on turbos the shaft sits on oil and stops the two surfaces touching which will cause friction..... heat...... then weld if it wasn't there!! Explain that?Have you removed a crank before? Have you ever had to disconnect the crank from any oil gallery or direct feed from the oil pump? The cranks I've removed all sit on the main bearings and rotate freely, the crank is drilled with an oil passage through it, but there is no direct oil feed to that passage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lukEp Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Look on the third picture posted on the first post. See the main journals? See the holes? Do you think that toyota put them there to save weight? Speed holes maybe. I'm sure you've never done engineering at all.....ever. think about it 8200rpm spash fed. Yeah that would hold up or maybe the crank would be spinning that fast oil wouldn't have a chance to spash on the journals and mains. Just like a washing machine spin dry's your cloths to a nice damp instead of a dripping mess. Go read a book. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TurboTobz Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Fucking lol.Ref to this linkhttp://www.tribology-abc.com/abc/engine.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nastyrash 2003 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 luk is right guys. i can put up direct pics of the main oil gallery from the oil pump to the oil pressure switch. cant belive wat im reading. splash to feed your big ends "crazy talk" even the little end whitch in som cases can be fed by splash on the 4efte is fed by a hole in the con rod called a oiler. this require pump presure behind it to do its job. com pn guys this is basic stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nastyrash 2003 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 and to answer the question asked here it simple. or at least could be = heat and piston ring sealing. expansion of the piston due to inaficent heat removal of the bore walls and rings = (runin process). or seizer of the little end forcing the crank to have to force the rod round = conntact with the crankpin and shell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1989martin1 Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Thanks for the help I couldn't see why it had holes in the shell was definitely covering this hole, just to add the lad that had it built didn't run it in at all he just went high boost from day 1, the little end is free and moving fine too I have a feeling it's possibly been oil starvation Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) hey great my little family is back bout time you logged al on our little club back on topic the conrods have no oil pressure coming to them for sure how can they ????? so are you saying our crank is hollow and coming tru there ???? edit: my reply was to the conrods not mains luke !!!!! Edited November 1, 2014 by 5e colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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