FMuscle Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Hello there, as some of you know I just swapped a 5E in my EP91. I have a few issue trying to start it. But first of all, here's some jucy details about the parts used:Donor car, 1992 AUS spec Paseo. C150 transmission, car has been run into the driver side but engine was running fine, it did drive but hard to keep in line or going fast with a crooked wheel... (pics in my build thread, link in sig) Was running on ECU #89661-16150 (26-16 pins)Engine is a 1st gen 5E-FE, bone stock. I added FHE cams and rolla inlet bought here on UKSO as well as FTE pistons. I kept my 4E throttle body because of the different IAC system, vacuum vs electric.Everything else is from the Paseo, all gaskets, seals and o-rings were replaced. The shell is a 1997 AUS spec Starlet, C150 trans, bone stock 4E-FE. ECU #89661-10250 (26-16 pins). Here are my issues: No sparks No injection Stock 4E exhaust doesn't fit with 5E sump. I don't seem to be getting oil pressure. #1, No Spark.I did not replace the coil in the dizzy, as it seemed to be in good condition and was firing before. Though I am using the 5E dizzy, not the 4E one. Could there be a difference in the pinout or in the distributors themselves preventing the sparks? The connectors did plug in like they should...I wanted to swap them, but ran out of time and got kicked out of the workshop for the weekend... #2, No Injection.I'm assuming there is no injection because I was trying to start it without the exhaust on, only the manifold. There was no smell of fuel whatsoever after several crankings. Could it be related to the dizzy being wrong, if that is my spark problem?I know I have fuel pressure at the filter outlet. I also heard about the earth on the back of the inlet, since I couldn't put it on the Corolla inlet I put it on the fuel return bracket under the TB. You can see it in the picture below. #3, Exhaust/sump interference.Quick question on this, do you guys know if the oil pickup is the same on both engines, could I just swap sumps for now until I get my custom exhaust done? #4, No Oil pressure.I asked here earlier the proper way to prime the oil pump, I was told to just crank until the light went off, with the EFI fuse removed. I did just that, but the light never went after several attempts. First one battery was weak, I charged it but light still stayed on. I tought maybe the 5E pressure sensor is faulty...When I pulled the cover to swap dizzys, there's barely any oil in the head, see picture. Cams are dry, what's there is most likely just the flow from when I poured it. What could cause this? Here's a video of my first priming attempt:>http://youtu.be/reBnq7eQAUY Thanks for helping. I want it back on the road!!! Edited January 6, 2015 by FMuscle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 first generation 5e ecu runs on external coil dont it so refit 4e ecu and 4e dizzy she will fire up oil pick ups arnt the same dont mix them up think the 5e is oval/square and 4e round ???? could be blocked oil passage so i would take oil filter off and oil pump drain oil and blow out them holes with air compressor and fit an oil pressure tester where the exhaust mani is to be safe !!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FMuscle Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) The Paseo had built in coil, same as my EP, but I'll swap them first thing when I'm back in the shop Monday. Does anyone know which side of the oil filter mount is from the pump, center or outside?Also it was suggested to remove the plugs to ease the priming process, I didn't... should I try that first? Edited January 2, 2015 by FMuscle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 not really after like the 10 cranks you did ther in the vid it should be full pressure in the system thats a big problem you have there might aswell rip off sump and sheck if pick up isnt blocked either still try the 4e ecu back and 4efe dizzy its probly the pinouts that are diferent then the 4efe ecu will run the 5e on startup no bother al them problems ( not the oil ) look like there becouse of wrong ecu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FMuscle Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 Sorry wasn't clear enough, didn't mention that I'm running the 4E ECU and the 4E sensors for the most, only oil press and what's in the dizzy are from the 5E. I will take both sumps off and compare pick ups and check for blockage. If I can swap, I will, the 4E was running just fine not 3 weeks ago. And it would solve my exhaust problem at the same time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Green Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 When I converted from a 4efe to a 5e-fhe, I used all of the 4e sensors, injectors, dizzy & ECU - I would try that to begin with on the electrical side of things. What is your fuel setup? All standard? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rwdrev Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 did you prime the oil pump with grease? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FMuscle Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 ^^^ No, when I asked here, I was told only to crank it to prime it...What is your fuel setup? All standard?All standard for now, I just replaced the injectors for the 5E. Seemed logic to do so... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 i am a bit confused reading all ( not english native ) what i can make out refit a good untouched 4efe dizzy and make sure ecu temp sensor is connected and it chould fire up ecu temp sensor and dodgy dizzy is about it why it wont fire up umless you molested the wiring ??????? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FMuscle Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 I didn't touch the engine wiring. I checked all wiring, it's all connected except the exhaust sensor since exhaust does not fit. First thing when I get back to the workshop Monday is to swap the dizzy for the 4E, drain the oil and look for the oiling system problem. I could also try the 5E ECU, but IAC isn't the same, and I don't have the 5E TB anymore... But lubrication is more important, no point starting it if it's going to seize. not english nativeI wouldn't have guessed from the forum... Me neither Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) ha ha the exhaust temp sensor tps and iac dont matter they can stay disconnected they have no say in starting or not think the problem lies in the dizzy only as you have the 4efe original ecu on the car al should be wel also make sure the ECU temperature sensor is plugged in ( on thermostat houseing ) if thats disconnected ecu will act up dont try fitting any 5e stuff treat her like a stock 4efe get back to me Edited January 3, 2015 by 5e colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FMuscle Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 I did plug everything on the thermostat/coolant housing, I had to reroute the wires as the positions are different on the 5E housings, but I reused the 4E sensors. I have no pictures of everything connected, but green sensor single pin connector on thermostat housing, grey 3pins on coolant housing + the double vac lines also on the coolant housing.Remember distinctly that because the ECT and vacuums are inverted and the wires were too short for the ECT using the dizzy loom, I rerouted it in the oil pressure loom to connect it. PITA to wrap in the tight corner...Here's what I know for sure is connectedalternator and starterTPS & IAC, but I'm not sure if that earth is getting good contact on the fuel rail (See pic in post 1, top right corner next to injector 4)...oil pressure, ECT, ECU temp, reverse light switch.Earths I'm sure of batt to trans, chassis to trans, I want to reverify the one on the engine mount but I'm pretty sure it's on. I do want to upgrade to bigger earth cables around the engine, especially with painted and coated parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FMuscle Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) Those are from when I was pulling the 5E out of the Paseo.In this one, there's ECT, green connector, and the unneeded sensor on newer models iirc, it's there just to block the hole... In that one, the white connector is that ECU temp sensor, and the 2 vacuums. Now these are the 4E reference pics I took before the swap.You can see what I mean by different positions of the sensors. Pardon the outback dirt on the connector... Edited January 3, 2015 by FMuscle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 the wite 1 on the back of thermostat is the fan on of switch ( is on my gt ) i dont know what the grean 1 doos there its 2 wire put the 4efe housing and sensors back on see if it doos the job also make sure the loom earths are clean on both surfaces Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FMuscle Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 the green one in which picture? 1st or 3rd? I will go buy some good cable and ring terminals tomorrow and make myself a good grounding kit, make sure everything is earthed properly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 3 pic is diferent on ours thats the fan switch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FMuscle Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 ah ok. first thing to try on that side is the dizzy.I'm more concern about the oil atm, I know I was careful when installing the pump, but what are the odds that the o-ring slipped and it's pumping air? I think I'll take the filter off and blow air towards the pump to see if it comes out in the right place or not... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 if the seal slipped then it will leak for sure unless you used silicone there ???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FMuscle Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 new OEM o-ring around the pump and silicone on the bottom of the housing, as it's meant to be... according to the 5E manual I got. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 so maybe silicon in pump blocked passage ??? causing this isseu ??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FMuscle Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 I'll check. The engine turns easily by hand, I doubt it'd be anything in the pump itself.First check if oil reached the filter, I doubt it will have.Then sump off and blow air in the passages to see if it goes where it's supposed to, check/swap pick up/sump... Fun fun fun... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sudden Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Pour a little oil into where the oil filter goes, reinstall the filter then swing engine with fuel and ignition disabled. Thats the method I used to prime the pump. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FMuscle Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 where the oil filter goes in the center fitting or the outter section? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harerace Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 #3 No, pick up is different, just swap out the sump and oil pick up Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FMuscle Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 Didn't do much today, so hot in the shop the thing I could do quickly is sweat... I got the 4E dizzy on. Noticed the plugs where not in the same order on the bracket, but that probably means nothing, however the wires were all different colors. We'll see soon.I also removed the sump, pick up and pressure release valve off the 4E after work, gave them a quick clean to fit them probably tomorrow. Shame because the other one was so fresh, cleaned and painted...Also read about the pressure issue at lunch. I saw a few people basically saying "Just man up and start it". It does make sense to me as my light never came off while cranking, always once started. Maybe the starter just doesn't turn quickly enough. That started was on the car when I bought it a year and a half ago. Here's the 4E lower end. I checked the valve, it's fine, moving... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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