GP82 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Is it possible to or has anyone got to install 11 even 12mm head studs to a 4EFTE cylinder block?! Also what is available regarding steel main line caps + fastners and main line girdle to support crankshaft for high hp output? Any input appreciated from a proven, reliable, fail safe build. Looking to get this right one time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 There is def billet mains out thereThat's me out of infoPhil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bean Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Do you even need studs that big on these engines. You can fit 4age studs by machining the head a little and drillinh and tapping the block I believe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GP82 Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 I already have studs in the motor, but the power i'm aiming for i know the cylinder pressure's will blow the cylinder block and cylinder head into smithereens. It's been long time since I looked at the 4E engine so will check it out. My main focus is reliabilty. Any input on building a strong motor appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 how much boost are you planning to run ?? 3 bar plus ?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GP82 Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 HP aim is approx. 550 - 600. The turbo is meant to achieve this on our engine with 25 - 29psi boost pressure Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Zisco do billet mains for a 4E, they are made by a company called The Real Tuners / Rogers Garage.5E engines don't need no modifications as the journals are wider. You won't need 11mm or 12mm studs. Going bigger isn't always better, try looking at the way the threads are cut Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GP82 Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 Okay thanks, yeah sure I have seen the Supra guys run 12mm studs and the threads are cut finer as well as sticking out more from the stud horizontally. This will yield a higher clamping force with a higher torque value, much more then a 10 and 11mm stud. I was just wondering is it possible to do this on a 4EFTE engine regarding packaging issues, not going into water or oil galleries and what not. I am planning to use stronger main caps with a girdle of some sort so to prevent cap walk and keep the crankshaft locked into the engine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 That's on a Supra... Not a StarletHaving a thread "stick out more horizontally" is just a function of the major diameter of a threaded joint. I don't want to sound like a killjoy here, but why are you asking the interwebs instead of talking to those with the experience of building such engines or engine designers? It sounds like it's planned not to be your average build where everyone can chime in and provide an answer to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GP82 Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 I Don't think it matters what application, the principle remains the same for fastners, more surface area engaged in the thread that increases friction and with a higher torque down value, you will net a stronger clamping force.I'm asking here because this is a forum for a specific platform Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) Well done, you've followed what the American's believe in I would say look something up called "jacking threads", but you won't find any information about it on the interwebs. Besides if you're that worried about clamping the head down, you wouldn't need the use of a headgasket either You're asking here because this forum is for a specific platform, yet it doesn't matter what the application is... an engine is an engine, the principles remains the same. Considering there is probably only about 3 people or so who knows what it takes to build a motor to be capable of such performance, and none of them are on here is why I asked why you're not going to engine builders / designers. Take a crank and block down to Arrow Precision, pay them circa £7500 and they'll give you a nice shiney billet crank with main caps / girdle. Oh and just for reference, a BMW Mini Cooper S 1.6 litre turbocharged, direction ignition, direct injection gasoline engine has a peak in-cylinder pressure of approx 75 bar, what makes you think that you're going to "blow the cylinder block and cylinder head into smithereens", when they use M10 head bolts? Edited March 6, 2016 by AdamB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GP82 Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 Okay Your points taken thank you. I just want to collect as much info to build a reliable engine. If you do not ask, share and talk about this where there is a big audience specific for the platform then you will not know all.I'm sure there are users of this forum that have built engines for this level of power successfully. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 HP aim is approx. 550 - 600. The turbo is meant to achieve this on our engine with 25 - 29psi boost pressure thats only 2 bar these will do just fine plenty off extra leeway then !!!! >>>>>>> https://www.raceeng.com/p-19650-arp-head-stud-kit4efte5efe-10mm-set-hsk-4efte.aspx Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GP82 Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 Yeah that's boost pressure, but the airflow through the engine will increase considerably and so the cylinder pressures will go sky high. I known of engines that have lifted the head with the 10mm studs at approx. 400hp. Yeah sure the engine performed but started to lift the head after covering 10 - 15k mileage. I want be sure the engine lasts with consistent hard use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobSR Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Where are you based and who's building the engine?Be interesting to see what Turbo / engine spec you'll be going for to hit that kind of power. Or is it just slap a big turbo on a built engine, throw some boost through it and see what happens?What's the use of the car? Or again is it just an exercise to see what numbers you can get ?ARP studs are not worth it over the upgraded ARP bolts on a Starlet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bean Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 if i was going for that power i wouldnt be using a 4e or 5e engine. I would be going for a B18 or k20 honda engine, tried and tested for years at much higher power figures. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GP82 Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 Robsr I already have a motor I built myself a few years ago. I'm gonna refresh all the bearings and I wanna strengthen the rotating assembly with main caps and girdle + ideally bigger head studs.Engine spec is cp 9:1 c/r pistons solid wrist pins, carillo h beam rods. Cylinder head has been ported + polished with stiffer springs.Turbocharger is an Ihi that can outflow a garrett gt35, but spool up is closer to a gt30. Professional race and rally teams use this turbo. Definantley not a slap on and see what happens. Infact I'm approaching it with caution. Car will be used to drive on the road so not a exercise to see what numbers i can get. More to get a good drive out of it and make the build as full proof as it can get so i can have peace of mind. That's why I posted to maybe see if anyone who had aimed for similar power level come across any other issues that could be worked around to ensure reliabilty.The bolts will not be reliable at this power level i am sure, definantley not consistently. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GP82 Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 if i was going for that power i wouldnt be using a 4e or 5e engine. I would be going for a B18 or k20 honda engine, tried and tested for years at much higher power figures.I believe the 4efte is more then capable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobSR Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) So you want a 600bhp EP as a road car? Blimey.Look up Spuddy/AnimalGT/Zisco's/Dylan's builds. I don't think any of the Irish boys are running billet caps.If you hit 600 bhp at 25psi on a 4e with that turbo and GT30 spool on road fuel I'll come to wherever you are and shake your hand. Edited March 6, 2016 by RobSR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Whitenoize Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 A reliable 600 bhp 4e as a road car that's some funny shit 😂😂😂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bussey Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 A reliable 600 bhp 4e as a road car that's some funny shit 😂😂😂Totally useable Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie28 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Totally useable Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) Think Dylan's running 550 or so on his road car.Spuddys motor maybe not a great one think they went pretty mental on block strength so cooling may be out the window on a road car. (Concrete in water ways etc I think)I'd say your going about it the right way. Fuel with mainland 100ron fuel or e85 you should be grand Look forward to seeing how you get on.What's your IHI turbo?Phil Edited March 7, 2016 by Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GP82 Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 So you want a 600bhp EP as a road car? Blimey.Look up Spuddy/AnimalGT/Zisco's/Dylan's builds. I don't think any of the Irish boys are running billet caps.If you hit 600 bhp at 25psi on a 4e with that turbo and GT30 spool on road fuel I'll come to wherever you are and shake your hand. Thanks Robsr, I have checked out Spuddy's build and also spoke with AnimalGT over PM's. What amazing builds they are and proof that it can be done with the right ingredients in the recipe. I am going to check out the monstorous build's that are Dylan's and Zisco. I think with the main caps, it is hit and miss because they are cast, but in a high hp build I don't think it's worth the risk. I have seen many engines survive and quite a few that have been let down. Here is pictures of a 4EFTE that was running approx. 300 hp. It ran with the same tune for many year's and covered many miles. You look at the bearings closely, there is signs of cap walk from the vector force of the crankshaft and has gone to the weak point on the cap and finished it off. I Have also read of many examples of the caps breaking on this forum so I don't think it's worth the risk. Although I have 9:1 CR pistons, the final C/R is going to be considerably lower and car will only be ran on road fuel Shell 99 nitro. Boost pressure ratio for now is just approx., but can push more to reach hp aim. I will come and shake your hand, I've been following your new build with interest and looks good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GP82 Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 Totally useable Why not?! I use boost by gear. Good supsension setup and tyres will help, but that's something to work around after. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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