guys, when i had only 2 or 3 years under my belt on here i'd have responded to Rubix as you have. how-and-evar, having been a member as long as i have, and having come to know rubix over the past 7 or 8 years, i have learnt that the sexy east coast living mofo is usually right. dont get me wrong. i hate saxos. hate them. i bait them where i can, even in the alfa. but, what rubix has that i dont, is experience of driving a great many different cars, jap and frog. and what i can assure you all of, is that experience trumps opinion. fact. dont turn into starlet owning versions of saxo owners. please, for the love of all thats Holy! read back up this thread, because thats all this is!!!! take out every reference to starlets being great and saxos being shit, swap the words around, and u have posts stright off saxperience! STOP IT!!!! EP drivers are better than that! Phil.