Mate youve been proved wrong your asking for an opinion and you've got it the verdict from the majority of people are that they are shite simples. Accept it and move on stop trying to drag it out. If you want to have a focus orgy go on their OC but to be fair. Aye a Civic would piss all over it. Its not all about numbers weights and torques u know. Suspension plays a massive part, Gear ratios, drive trains, You claim maxmax is the only one who speaks sense thats because he is the oly person who agrees with what your opinion is. Im not sayin he is wrong as i dont own a civic although i will stick to my opinion focus st's are fat and boring probly bought off an arnold clark forecourt. If your not interested in peoples opinions then dont ask the questions. Theres a lot of guys on here who are clued up on cars so dont spout mince.