Bang on mate doesnt take ages to get to vtec because when you hit it your constantly in it when planted. Yeh stance is ruing the civic scene and anyone with a stanced civic people go mad on the forum for them a guy had a standard lsi on civiclife but lowered it with deep dish wheels and he had like 3,000 comments or something stupid and my ef9 hadnt even got 500 and its rare as shit and was well looked after by me lol Its a joke