dazstarlet

Welcome, yes it is for all Starlet models.

So looks like bottom end is gone on my EP91 NA. New shells did not help, and one of the cams has worn lobes at the corners. I have found a garage that has experience of these issues and they normally get the cranks sent off for a regrind. But they are encouraging me to get a whole engine change. I can see that would be a lot less hassle for them, but i'm not keen as what Starlet motor has not seen a lot of action... I don't want the same issue a year down the line on another engine. Should I look to replace the cam at the same time as a regrind and new bearing shells? Reading another post I take it that after the crank comes back the measurements to determine bearing clearance are critical so Toyota send the right ones? Anything else that might need to be replaced due to damage? I'll try to get a video tomorrow of sound from engine. It's not pretty to the ears I have a budget of about £600 ish for this. That should be enough you think? Cheers all.

Will try and get a video sorted...

This bloke was in Peterborough Sefton. Small world! I guess if they don't know what the problem is then you are on to a loser right from the offset, that's the problem I am finding more of these days. I mean the Starlet must be one of the simplest cars to work on! How much free labour will a garage give you before they find the root cause and fix it? The small guys don't have the expensive diagnostic machines, so it's a case of trial and error which eats the hours up and it's not something they seem to want to get involved with for maybe just a few hours of 'actual' fix labour. Plus if you give someone permission to go ahead and do work based on what is effectively their best guess (if they tell you that they are not 100% sure) are you not ultimately liable to pick up the tab if it's not fixed, even just for the parts they have used? The same was true of 3 different garages with my suspension problems this year too. None of them fixed it totally. I am running out of mechanics to try

Just posted in the engines section about my woes with a problem which despite shelling out over £200 to have fixed actually hasn't fixed the problem at all. This is becoming quite common in my experience with both mechanics and some DIY / home improvement tradesmen, as maybe skills are on the wane what with no apprenticeships and such like these days. But wondered how others deal with this sort of thing? Assuming you don't do your own work on your cars (and I know a lot do on the forum), do you drive a car away from a garage without paying first and take it back if it's not fixed teling them you won't pay unless they sort it, or do you pay up front and go back and complain? If like me you've paid for parts that have not fixed the issue, together with the labour cost to fit them it isn't likely you will get refunded so what can you do without causing a major row and accusing garage / mechanic or being incompentent? Just wondered if others have experiences like this and how you handled it. I am truly fed up of paying out for substandard work, and like I say it seems to becoming more and more common these days. I've had problems with several garages in the last few years, maybe I just pick the bad guys!

Well it's not been a happy 2015 for my Starlet. What with continuing suspension issues now in last month it's developed a nasty sounding noise which seems to be coming from the engine. Noise is like a throaty 'thrumming / gargling' noise which is there all the time, and very noticeable when you lift off the gas and revs decrease or when you depress clutch and change gear. The noise got really bad and I took it to a garage near where I worked who said I should not drive it, and that it was a bottom end problem (garage took the to an engine 'specialist' and they said it was bottom not top end). So after taking off the head they could not see anything in terms of gunk in the block - it is as clean as a whistle, but the lobes on one of the cams (nearest to passenger bulkhead) have worn down on one corner. Not good, but there is enough of the lobe still ok that they did not think that was a root cause of the noises.... They suggested new crank shells which I duly paid out for and were fitted. They have made absolutely diddly squat difference to the problem So I am £230 light and still have issue which is sounding worse by the day. Probably my own fault for using this garage, as despite seeming to have a good reputation on the internet the same bloke could not sort out my suspension woes either. My new years resolution: he's never touching my Starlet or getting my business again, two strikes and you're out.... Anyway, a friend said it could be conrods, so could it be something to do with a mis-fitted belt? The same useless garage fitted a new one as part of a service about 5 months back, but they of course reckon that is fitted fine and not the root cause. I suppose the lobes would be worn on both cams if it was a belt / timing issue? Any ideas lads? I don't want to see my beloved Starlet go to the scrapper, but I don't want a huge bill for an engine rebuild either If I can help it.

An update, and touch wood it's good news. I have a two strikes and you are done policy with garages and mechanics, so it was never a possibility I would go back to the same guy for a 3rd time after he checked the car out and told me all was fine. So searching around for a good mechanic I had a gut feeling that this local old chap who specialised in Land Rovers would (or should) know his stuff when it came to suspension matters. So I trundled off to his garage before work yesterday so he could take a look. We went out for a road test, and although I could easily sense the same issue from the passenger seat the mechanic was not really seeing or feeling what the problem was. He said the rear was following the front fine. Ok..... So I was a bit deflated at that point. But my hunch that he would be the right man turned out good. He did hear a clanking sound when we came out of a corner, so he had something to go on. We got back to his garage and he had an inspection pit and a machine that tests out suspension and wheel movement. Large moving pads that one side of the wheels sit on shake everything to buggary and he watched from underneath (pretty damn scary to watch too... the movement in all directions that it forces from the wheels / suspension is so much you think it will break them off!). At last he sees that it is in fact one of the bushes that the last bloke checked twice and swore blind were fine, it's perished and there is quite a lot of movement forwards and backwards - so the left rear is moving out of vertical alignment which would explain the oversteer and sense of freewheeling around corners and the general instability I feel. So fingers crossed this is near to resolved. Thanks for the advice you gave chaps, I will post once more if/when this sorts it but it looks promising.

Yes it's up now mate. Not too great I don't think to see anything.

I have created a video, maybe it will show something you guys can see is wrong. https://youtu.be/bix2J2X_Z3s

Thanks for all the replies. Appreciate it. I will check out the things you mention may be wrong. You are worrying me though in one way... I mentioned the pan rod as maybe a root cause to one of the people who has seen the car underneath and they told me it didn't have one Maybe that's the problem! Has it fallen off... I'd better get that checked out... Excuse my ignorance but is that adjustable or fixed on the UK model? The car was in a minor shunt on the drivers side, but it was only light panel damage afaik. Did not have the problems at that point or when the car came out of the bodyshop. Other than that shunt it has had a quiet life with a pensioner first owner before me.

Hope you guys can help me out here, this problem is really making me crazy! Sorry for all the waffle in the detail bit, but hopefully the timeline history may help you to understand what the problem may be. Brief: Car feels like it's moving side to side at the back - this is at high speed or over big bumps etc. Seems to have lateral play in rear suspension even when you push on the side panels. Going around sharp corners there is a lot of oversteer and car feels like it's freewheeling. Detail: So first a rundown on the history of suspension work on the car. I decided to have new suspension fitted all round as it was on all originals, so a couple of years ago I had some KYB shocks and struts fitted at each corner + bump stops all round + new front top mounts (KYB did not sell rear top mounts for some reason). The fitter I used messed up at the front, but the new stuff at the rear seemed fine and eventually all was sorted and handling was much improved (together with new 15" Yaris alloys that had been fitted). One year later I started to feel handling get a bit 'sloppy', could not put my finger on why though and soon after a rear top mount failed which I assumed was the sloppy handling root cause issue and both rear mounts were replaced. Initially after that was done things seemed a bit better, but gradually since then handling has deteriorated. The feeling was now quite clear - that is that the car seemed to be unstable at the rear end over bumps and at speed. It feels like the rear end is moving about side to side, with the drivers side seeming to be the culprit. Sometimes there is a weird sensation of 'free-wheeling', and it even makes you feel a bit disorientated when you drive. My thoughts were backed up by a few drivers who seemed to be flashing their lights at me from behind - like they could see something wrong as I drive the car. This got worse until tbh driving the car felt dangerous. I noticed that the car even shakes more than it should when you shut the door! One other thing is that when I reversed up a slight incline over a low height kerb stone every night to park up I could always hear a clanking sound coming from the back (that always sounded like the left rear side though). So off car goes for normal service and I tell the mechanic about the issue which people were telling me it might be the rear bushes. As part of the service I already planned to have new wheel bearings all round (+ new rear drums and front tie rods) so if bearings were the issue that would be sorted. This work was all done, and the mechanic found that the right side new KYB shock had failed. Both rear shocks were replaced with what I imagine are inferior motor factor generic replacements. Problem solved so mechanic said after he road tested it ... er, no it's not solved at all. Far from it. Certainly the car felt a bit better initially (as it would if a shock had gone), but even after having a decent front wheel alignment with Hunter machine the car again felt like it was moving about at rear and now getting worse. The wheel alignment chap could see nothing wrong with rear suspension on the ramp. So then went off to my usual tyre fitter and asked there advice. Told them all the story and the lad shoved on the rear right wheel and we could both see some movement there and even heard a clanking sound that seemed to be coming from between new drums and the hub. That's your problem said the lad, so car goes back to garage and I tell mechanic about the clanking from this right side wheel. He double checks things and tells me that the bushes are 100% fine, but he did find some play in the new wheel bearings at the rear both sides so he tightens them up. He road tests the car and tells me all is ok the problem is solved... again no it's not solved at all. So now I am at a loss. I have had new rear top mounts, shocks, springs, bump stops, bearings. Plus the bushes are fine I am assured and also had tracking done and there is no steering judder so that should be wheel balancing out of the equation. I could be chasing my tail now if the replacement rear shocks or new bearings are rubbish quality, but I don't see why that should be. It doesn't feel like vertical travel is the problem. What else could it be that the mechanics have missed twice and the tracking guy can't see when it's on the ramp? Any ideas appreciated, as I am out of them