How to build a 5E - FTE engine, 5E Conversion

[Taggy]

Taggys Dummies guide to building a forged 4e/5efte engine (same applies for stock engine)

How to build a 5E - FTE engine from scratch

Index

Introduction

Parts required

Machine shop work

Tolerances on critical engine parts

Bottom end assembly

Introduction

So you consider your self a dummy but are keen to build engines and save your self some wonga, then read on. With this guide anyone should be able to build an engine who can follow my instuctions. Its not a black art and is actually fairly easy. Most of it is just knowing the correct procedure for everything

I am documenting this on my own forged 5E build

Now UKSC managed to loose my disasembly guide to go with this so this will currently just cover the reassembly, I'll rewrite it after i have put my engine back together! Note everything in here is for reference and I take no responsibility for anything in building your own engine and stuff going wrong, but follow this correctly and you will be fine.

TAKE NOTE!

So first rule of thumb in engine building, DO IT ONCE, DO IT RIGHT!!!!! Dont cut ANY corners and read this document about 10 times before you even start building it so you are familure with the build process. If you cut any of the steps out or rush building it, you may as well throw your money down the pan. Engine building is all about minute tollerances between parts and putting everything back together in a set sequence, thats the pep talk over, let go!!

Parts required for full rebuild

This is based on my 5e forged build, so if your building a standard or 4e obviously buy the respective corresponding parts. I will list the prices I paid also as of 28/3/12 So you can use for reference.

PEC forged 5e connecting rods - £400

74.5mm Wossner forged pistons - £450

Athena MLS 1.2mm headgasket - £100

Toyota full engine gasket set - £148

Toyota oil pump - £97.50

5E conversion flywheel (so you can use the larger 4e clutch) - £140

Water pump - £29.90

Timing belt - £25.50

Engine stand - £55.00

Piston ring compression tool (to fit pisons in the block) £11.98

ACL main bearings - £43

ACL big ends - £36

ACL thrustwashers -£12

Total: £1548.88

Obviously on top of this you need a 5e Donor engine which cost me £125 from a Toyota Paseo and you also need a 4E head and sump/strainer. In hindsight i drastically underated the build cost!!! so thats £1673.88 so far without any workshop costs!!!

Machine Shop work

Now that you have stripped the engine down to its bare parts i.e

Head

Block

Crank

Pistons and rods

We can begin to work on these parts to get them ready for assembly. First things first we need to take our block, head and crank down to the local engineering workshop who will inspect them to ensure they are useable (i.e not damaged) and that they are within tolerance, and if not they can be ground, polished etc.

In particular you need the following work done:

Get the head skimmed

Fit new head valve stem seals (you can do this your self if you have the tools)

Head chemically cleaned

Had the block bored oversize

Bores Cross hatched and honed

Block decked

Block Chemically cleaned

Block notched

Had the crank measured and polished

The Head

Before a chemical wash

After Nice clean refreshed head with new valve stem seals

As part of the build you would have bought a full toyota engine gasket set, so when you give them the head ask them the change the valve stem seals for you (unless you have the tools to do it your self) and also check the head to ensure its straight. As a rule of thumb if your spending this much money on it, for the sake of £30 get it skimmed, even if your Head gasket hadnt failed. This way you know 100% the head is totally refurbed when you put it back together, DO IT ONCE DO IT RIGHT!!, It should also be chemically cleaned

So you want to ask for:

Valve stem seals changing (unless you can do it, need a special tool to remove valves)

Head skimmed

Chemically cleaned

possibly ported and polished if they do it.

The Block

The block will need to be cross hatched and honed to fit your standard size pistons, or if you are going oversize then bored out to the size of your pistons. 74.5mm is the common size for forged pistons, or a maximum of 75mm but this give no room for error if you damage the block in future, it will have to be scrapped.

Your new pistons will come with a spec sheet so give this to them. Also ensure you ask to get the block decked to ensure its straight and smooth to reveive the new HG (DONT LEAVE ANYTHING TO CHANCE!!). When you get it back give it a coat of high temp paint for the new look, just make sure you mask it all up It should also be chemically cleaned.

So you want:

Bored oversize if need be if your going oversize pistons

Honed and Cross hatched

Chemically cleaned

Top of the block decked

The Crank

The crank will either be standard size or it may have been skimmed in the past and be undersize, the workshop will check this for you and advise appropiate bearings. Always use ACL bearings for the main bearings, big ends and thrust washers. The crank journals should be free of scratches to be used and its advisable to get it polished, or ground if damaged.

If you dont have the tools to measure the journals your self, get the machine shop to do it, ask them to service the crank, measure it all up to toyota specs and also check for out of roundness.

Work required:

Polished or ground if unserivcable, you can go undersize 0.25 and 0.50

Pistons and rods

Give your pistons and rods to the machine shop and ask them to the attach the pistons to the rods, you will need to give them one of the standard ones so they can see what direction it attaches.

Once your pistons and rods are together you will also need to gap your piston rings acording to the spec sheet provided with your pistons and also you will need to "Clock" your rings so that they are put on in the correct direction. Again your spec sheet will provide you with this information.

Tolerances on critcal engine parts

Dependent on what your circumstances are on rebuilding your engine, you need to get a number of things checked to ensure that your engine parts are within tolerance of the specification as set out by Toyota. This is because parts could be worn out of shape or new parts may not be a 100% fit and so you need to check the specifications and get them spot on. DO NOT IGNORE THIS, IF YOU DO YOUR ENGINE WILL FAIL! In fact this is the most important part of engine building and is the main reason people doing this end up with a knackered engine.

I will post up the spec sheets shorly for the 5e which you need to follow to ensure your engine does not fail prematurely.

This is VITAL and includes

Measuring your existing bottom end bearings - they will either come in standard or oversize if the crank has been ground previously

Measuring your bores - This ensures that they are within specifcation and not worn out of shape past Toyotas recomendations

Measuring your piston ring gaps - Again even new new rings for any pistons need to be gapped,

Measure the crank for out of roundness - Ensure your crank is not worn unevenly which could cause premature bearing failure.

Measuring sideways crank drift - If your thrust washers are worn your crank may have to much sideways play

I'll be posting up more details and pictures of each of these processes this week.

You need accuarate tools to be able to measure most of the above, if you dont have these then you can do what I did and ask your machine shop to measure it all for you. It costs a bit more but its a must!!

Bottom end assembly

Parts Required:

ACL Main Bearings

ACL Big ends

ACL Thrust washers

Assembly lube

Torque Wrench

Micrometer (measure your bores, bearings)

Vernier gauge (Gap your piston rings)

So now you have spent a small fortune to get to this point its time to put it together, dont even think about doing this on a bench or the floor, go out and buy your self an engine stand. You can pick them up for about £50 and it will make things ten time easier as well as keep any dust contaminants away from the engine.

This is mine i bought it from machinemart new online for £55

NOTE: IT IS REALLY, REALLY important you build your engine in a clean environment, so your shed aint gonna cut it. One bit of crap in one of the journals, oil ways and the whole bottom end could fail. Build it in your house if your Mrs will let you lol, i went up my mates

Get your block and stick it onto your engine stand like this...

The first job is to fit the main bearings into the block journals, by this point you should have worked out what bearings you need be it standard or oversize.Measure them with a micrometer to find out or ask your workshop. So go get your ACL main bearings and pop them in like below, then line the notches up so then gently press them in to seat them properly. Make sure the journals are clean and free of any contaminants before you put each one in. Do not put any lube on the back of them or the seat.

Click all 5 in as shown below and then put a liberal coating of oil on all 5.

Placing the final one in

Once you have put them all in it should look like this

Next is to fit the thrust washers in the centre on number 3 these stop the crank from floating sideways once its all tightened up, the are maked with lines on one side of them, these markings face OUTWARDS on both sides. Note: There are 4 of them, two for the bottom and two for the top, put the two in now coat them in lube so they stick, the other two go in later on.

The right one

The left one

Next is to get your polished crank and lube the main journals ready to lower it into the engine. Again coat the main journals in oil first onthe crank.

Lower it in really carefully and ensure its completly horizontal to snugly fit into the journals, you do not need to force it. Note: The crank has to face the correct direction as shown below, the crank pulley side goes the direction of the timing belt.

You can give the crank a little turn to ensure its seated properly, just keep an eye on those centre thrust washers as they might move, just make sure they are flush. If all is good it should turn freely with little resistance.

Next is to put the main caps on to hold the crank in place, these also need bearings put into them, there are 5 of of them and they are numbered 1-5, again cover the outside in oil once fitted.. It is very important you put these on the correct way and in the correct sequence. You will notice that each one has a number on the top and also a small peg in the middle to indicate the direction it should go. Number 1 starts on the clutch/flywheel side with the peg facing the timing belt and then 2,3,4,5 all follow the same pointing towards the timing belt side with those pegs.

Grab number 1 and put your bearing in (note the number on top)

Again like the other bearings, press them in with the notch facing the notch on the cap like above. Dont forget to coat it wil lube after you have put it in

Put all your caps on 1 through 5 (facing the correct way) not forgetting to put the last two thrust washers in number 3, again lube them to help them stick.

and then hand tighten all the crank bolts, make sure the caps sit nicely on top of its seating position ready to be tightened down.

The crank bolts need to be tightened with a torque wrench and need to be done in two stages of tightening. Also its important you put fastner on this bolts like below (follow the insructions for use)

Set your torque wrench to 24Nm and then tighten them in a set sequence below

REMINDER: ADD TORQUE SEQUENCE DIAGRAM

Once tightened increase the torque setting to 58Nm and again follow the above tightening sequence.

Next rotate the engine as the next stage is to fit your pistons and rods

So your engine should now be in this position

Looking down from the top we can see the crank below which is where our pistons are going to be attaching too

Note to those who noticed the block isnt decked, yes i sent it back, how much better is that!!!!

Da daddd, nice and smooth for the head gasket.

Now we will be getting the pistons and rods that the machine shop earlier put together for us, now in hindsight i wish i bloody did it my self, it takes 2 secconds to put the gudgeon pins in with the clips so save your self some money and do it your self

If you have got an electronic weighing scales, weigh the piston, rod and gudgeon pin all individually, you will notice that some parts are slightly heavier than others. You want it all balanced so try and get each piston/rod/bearing once assembled within say a 1 or 2 grams of each other.

I weighed mine and got them within 1 gram of each other

Once thats done again fit the big end bearings to the notches and then apply the lube to the outside (dont cover the inside) they are notched like before so put them in like previous.

NOTE: Its really important you do not mix the caps up on the rods,this includes putting them back on the same rod in the opposite direction, they are machined to fit that rod and if you mix them then you can cock everything up. Number these with a pen to the corresponding piston so its impossible to mix them up before you start building it.

Gapping piston rings

This stage of the build is quite important and ensures we get a good seal on the bore for maximum compression, this needs to be done on any new pistons and ensures the rings get a good seal and allow adequate room for them to expand when they get hot.

Different rings have different specs so if your using standard rings use the 5e manual specs or if your using forged Wossner ones like me, use the spec sheet provided.

Here are the Wossner 74.5mm piston ring spec table.

The top ring, the bottom ring and the oil rings have different gap requirements, so make sure you gap all of them.

You need to measure each bore size with an internal micrometer or as i have done used telescopic measuring guages and then measured them with an accurate micrometer

get the width of the bore with the telescopic tube

then measure it with a micrometer

once you have the bore width x it by the value in the box. Obviously its turbocharged so use that value

So for the 1st ring gap size (top) as an example my bore size is 74.5mm x 0.0055mm = 0.40975mm

2nd ring 74.5mm x 0.0065 = 0.48425mm

Oil rings can be between 0.35mm - 1.00mm

Now that we have these values we can fit the rings into that particular bore, remember you need to do this process for each bore as each bore may be slightly different in size.

So get the piston ring, coat it in oil and press it in, use the piston to push it in and get it square as shown.

Once in you can see where the gap is, this is what we are going to measure. To measure it you will need some feeler guagues, they are only cheap about £5-10. Just make sure you get one that can go up in 0.01 0.02 and up increments as it has to be quite precise.

So the top ring gap has to be a minimum of 0.40975mm, get your feeler guague like above and put in say 0.4mm and then in an extra 0.01 and see if it fits, if it does, brilliant, if not you need to file down the gap until you get the desired size.

Read this on gapping rings, it will explain the best method on how to do it

http://www.circletra...1818/index.html

Then repeat the process for the rest of the rings on that piston, you need to repeat this process for the rest of the cylinders, remember to remeasure the bore and recalculate the figure for the correct gap size.

If its all a bit confusing feel free to drop me a line!

How to correctly fit your rings (clock them)

Your rings cant go on in any order so ensure you have the correct top, middle, and oil rings in place. The top two rings also need to go on in the correct way around, the Wossner ones have the writing on the top.

Where the gap is on the rings, you need to face this gap in the correct direction, each one needs to point a particular direction as shown in the diagram below.

Now that the rings are gapped and pointing in the correct direction you are ready to put it into the bore. In order to get it to fit you need a piston ring compression tool, again about £11 from machine mart.

Its very easy to do you wrap the piston in it, tighten it and then place the piston into the bore. You can then tap it into position with a rubber mallet etc.

Note how the direction of the piston faces the intake side of the engine

Once you have fitted the first piston, you will need to line it up with the crank journal underneath and then put the matching cap on with your ARP bolts.

I missed the photos of the first piston being attached but here is a shot of me putting the 3rd one on,

You can see that the cap is on ontop of the crank journal and i am tightening it up with a torque wrench. Make sure you put the main bearing on each side of the cap, coat it in oil and then tighten up. The big end ARP bolts need to be tightened down to a specefic torque, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.

The torque setting will be supplied with your rods, so again if your standard check the manaul or if your forged, use the spec sheet. Here is the Pec 5e Forged spec sheet.

Its the top value that we are interested in, i converted it to Nm for my torque wrench so 40.7Nm, make sure you put on your ARP fastner lube and it will ensure you get the desired torque setting first time around.

Once all the pistons are in and connected up well done, we can move on towards getting some of the other parts attached.

Oil pump fitment

Really important part of the engine, the oil pump! Always put a new one in if your doing a full rebuild, its not worth the risk of using an old one. Remember these engines are over 15 years old! Before we change it though we will change the rubber gasket which sits behind it, pry it out and put a nice new one in from your gasket set.

Once thats in you will need to press a new crank oll seal into your new oil pump, its that brown one in the picture already attached to the pump. Note this is a common failure point for oil leaks so make sure put a seam of oil on it to fit it and tap it in so its completly flush not ofset, make sure you dont ding it either!

If i remember correctly there are 10 bolts to fit it on, one has a little metal tag which is used to attach a spring to the cambelt tensioner. Tighten them all up ensuring the oil seal is snug on the crank.

head gasket fitment

make sure both your head and block are clean and skimmed ready to accept the new gasket, i used an athena on mine.

fit the gasket on the dowles, then lower you head on in the correct direction as shown.

I have missed a big chunk out about timing the engine up and putting the cams back in, but its info thats been covered a million times already so didnt see much point going over it again.

At this stage you just need get your head torqued down to the set requirements in the correct sequence and put back in your cams and caps the way you removed them.

There are some brilliant videos here on putting a 4e/5e together and will help no end in putting the final parts back together!

Look at his other videos as its split into about 12 parts but it tells you everything you need to know!!

Here is my engine nearly finished

Edited September 26, 2012 by Taggy

[Socks]

Briliant Taggy! Keep going with this, I will enhance the photos and move this into the wiki section upon completion!

[Taggy]

Its coming along, its full of spelling mistakes and maybe some errors but if anyone spots anything let me know and i will edit it. Had to cut it short last night as the bloody block needs notching, i didnt think it needed to be done with the PEC rods, gutted, oh well will continue with it on the weekend

[Ricky@Race-Tech]

Thats all well and good but...

I wouldn't put a head on that engine with the block surface as it is.

You haven't measured the bearings

Did you measure the bores?

Did you do the ring gaps?

Did you measure the crank for round?

Did you torque the bolts or measure stretch?

Etc etc. Engine assembly is what your doing there, and yes, my 3 year old could do it. Engine building is all about measuring, tolerances/cleaning etc, this is what takes up the time. We could charge 2 hours labor to assemble an engine.

We rebuild more forged engines because they have failed than we rebuild standard ones.

[Taggy]

Hi Ricky

Thanks for posting up with this, its a bit of a bearmoth of a write up so I knew i was going to miss bits out!

I will add in a section about tolerances when i get some more pics, i am gonna clean the head up a bit more too, i assumed it would come up shiney as it went though the chemical wash, nothing a bit of elbow greese cant fix to shine that up.

As for the rest I should of mentioned I had the machine shop check all the tolerances for me, this included specing the bores to the crib sheet with the forged oversize pistons, measuring the bearings which were standard size and appropiate ACL bearings purchased, the crank was checked for wear and out of roundness.

I torqued the crank caps down in two stages with a torque wrench as per the torque specifications in the 5e manual, when you say measure stretch, do you mean stretch on the existing bolts? as new ones were used.

The piston rings is a good one i would like to ask your advice on, i understand you have to gap the rings on standard pistons, but after reading previous posts, i was under the impression you didnt need to gap the rings which come supplied with the Wossner forged piston? Is this the case or should i gap them still?

Thanks

Appreciate the help, want to make this as accurate as possible for people to use

Edited April 19, 2012 by Taggy

[rorenapier]

What torque setting did you use on the conrod caps? 5e ones or the ones supplied with the rods?

5e ones are no use here..

Edited April 19, 2012 by rorenapier

[Taggy]

I torqued them down to the original engine specs in the 5e manual, there were no settings supplied with the PEC rods.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Taggy

[Asad]

You have the gap the pistons all the time ^ standard or forged......every bore is different

did you not get the block decked? get them to do it before it comes back mate

[Taggy]

Yeah i asked him to deck the block, but i think he must have got confused on my order as when he gave it back to me he said that he had measured the block surface and it was completly straight. I am going back down there tonight with it so I will get him to do it then

Ah thanks for the info on the piston rings, i'll gap them this evening.

Much appreciate the criticisim on the build as it helps me with anything i have done incorrectly. If you see anything else I havent done right please point it out!!!

[Asad]

get some assembly lube off them too, normal oils too thin...especially at that critical start-up moment

[Taggy]

Just spoke to them on the phone hes gonna deck it for me

Edited April 19, 2012 by Taggy

[Asad]

nice and simple way to check ring gaps

http://www.c-speedr....dgap/endgap.php

checking bearing clearances

/>http://www.c-speedr.com/howto/bearings/bearings.php

Edited April 19, 2012 by Asad

[Taggy]

ah my trusty feeler guage comes to the resuce Does anyone have the ring gap specs?

Edited April 19, 2012 by Taggy

[00joeindastarb0]

I would have changed the stem seals myself its a straight forward job no point in paying someone else to do it.

Invest in a parallel and emery paper so you can achieve a good finish on all mateing surfaces(not head, block)

Have you deburred any of the assembly?

[Taggy]

note to self:

PISTONS, PINS & RINGS SPECIFICATIONS

PISTONS, PINS & RINGS TABLE

Application

Pistons

Clearance

In. (mm)

Standard ........................ .0035-.0043 (.090-.110)

Wear Limit ................................. .0051 (.130)

Diameter (1)

Size Mark "1" ............. 2.9094-2.9098 (73.900-73.910)

Size Mark "2" ............. 2.9098-2.9102 (73.910-73.920)

Size Mark "3" ............. 2.9102-2.9106 (73.920-73.930)

Rings

No. 1

End Gap

Standard ....................... .0102-.0189 (.260-.480)

Wear Limit ............................... .0421 (1.070)

Side Clearance .................. .0016-.0031 (.040-.080)

No. 2

End Gap

Standard ....................... .0118-.0224 (.300-.570)

Wear Limit ............................... .0402 (1.020)

Side Clearance .................. .0012-.0028 (.030-.070)

No. 3 (Oil)

End Gap

Standard ....................... .0051-.0197 (.130-.500)

Wear Limit ............................... .0433 (1.100)

Edited April 19, 2012 by Taggy

[00joeindastarb0]

Your using ARPs and forge pistons go by the paperwork supplied with them for torque and ring gaps.

[Taggy]

Updated some more information

[pockrockgtti]

I torqued them down to the original engine specs in the 5e manual, there were no settings supplied with the PEC rods.

Thats a bad idea, im sure there are torque setting for those bolts in the pec sheets somewhere. If you cant find it your best of emailing pec and get the proper specs. Also when u gap the rings, you dont gap them to the oem specs, you gap them to the tolerences in the tables listed in the spec sheets with the wossner pistons. And remeber to clock each ring differently

Edited April 20, 2012 by pockrockgtti

[micky boy]

Nice thread enjoyed haveing a read there keep it up Taggy

[Flaminsam]

Just a lil adder here taggy. For one excellent thread. I was told never to touch the bearing shells where the "friction" would take place. Something to do with the oil in our skin or something? Also I would advise anyone building a engine to use torco engine assembly Lube. Put it on bearings, piston skirts and even cam lobes. Also are you stripping the oil pump or fitting a new one?

[Taggy]

I have since had it apart to get the block notched, so will double check the torque settings again from PEC and post them up, i'll post up more info on gapping the rings and clocking them also

Build is on hold at the moment while i wait for the block to be returned to me

Thats a bad idea, im sure there are torque setting for those bolts in the pec sheets somewhere. If you cant find it your best of emailing pec and get the proper specs. Also when u gap the rings, you dont gap them to the oem specs, you gap them to the tolerences in the tables listed in the spec sheets with the wossner pistons. And remeber to clock each ring differently

Edited April 22, 2012 by Taggy

[Asad]

The amount of stress and heat the bearing goes through i dont think it would matter touching them with your bare hands...^

[akyakapotter]

cutting it a bit fine to have it up and running by next weekend mate

[Taggy]

im fucked for getting it sorted for next week, I was on target last week building it but then I got thrown a curve ball putting it together and found out that I needed to get the block notched as the rods were catching the bottom of the block as they were going up and down. Had to pull the whole bloody thing apart again and get it back down the machine shop!

Turns out you need to get it notched for pec rods on a 5e, but not on a 4e!!! Just wish someone told me that before!!!

[akyakapotter]

not good mate so its gonna be ready for JapFest now then yeah ? my mate is going up to combe at the weekend in his V massive 1.3 sticker on the rear window