Saxo VTR/VTS Better than Gt's and Glanza's?

[argylefan1985]

why are you all so quick to slate saxos because there common being your main point?

How narrow minded are you lot.

Im sorry but i used to own a saxo and im fed up with people that tarnish them all as chavtastic and common as muck

Ok so they are common, there cracking little cars for cheap money

and yes alot of them are chavalicious this isnt to do with the car so much as it is to do with the owners who are able to afford them. I put it to all of you who have slated saxos, you jump in one WITH AN OPEN MIND yeah the build quality isnt great and the gearbox is a little sloppy and the breaks arnt nothing special, but even at standard they are still brilliant little cars!!!

far to many people are far to quick to judge!! i cant say much i was on this band wagon once, then i drove my friends and fell in love, i can honestly say i would own one again and plan to for a second car!

so dont judge the car if you havnt drove one and say you hate them, drive one i bet your opinion will be changed!

just look on www.saxperience.com for some fine example of truely awesome saxos it might enlighten a few of you.

[StarletRick]

I have D2 coilovers with the car nearly on its arse, with 4 new goodyear eagle f1's. If it involved corners i would have held my own no problem on them. His cars ride height was standard. There handling aint that good, good for it being a saxo.

dont you start with the "i have D2s, my car handles like an F1" thing. D2s are shit, ive owned a set and sold them.

the average starlet, with average power, wont beat a VTS on lanes. all you guys on this site need a reality check. starlets are not as great as you all think. i used to own a saxo, and they are good cars.

you need to spend alot of cash on a starlet to get it handling as well as a stock saxo.

[!Rush!]

I'v driven a few saxo's and 106's and in my opinion they are good handeling cars but i would have a starlet or glanza any day, theres just too much potential in the car to leave it and go buy a saxo

[dex]

i will have to try and blag takeing a vts out for drive and see what all the fuss is about.

but as i said before my old mk2 vtr was shocking and no a few other people who have

had vtr's and said the same thing

[riko666]

Rick (as always) and Argyle have hit the nail well and truly on the head. I generally do not like the Citroen Saxo, not because it is French, or it's "Rubbish", but rather due to the stigma of the typical Driver...same thing with Honduhs. Now truly...ask yourselves, why is the Citroen Saxo rubbish? Cause everyone says it is or is it your own actual opinion based on in depth comparison to other cars with a good knowledge of what you are looking out for? I severely believe it's the former...not to be up myself, but I don't think a lot of people know what they're are looking out for in cars when they rush to conclusions on a car's handling etc.

As it stands, the Citroen Saxo/Peugeot 106 was touted as one of the best handling, most fun cars of it's era, one of the most reminiscent of the great 1980's Hot Hatches like the Peugeot 205, Citroen AX GTi (not great, but entertaining nevertheless), MK1 & MK2 Golf GTi etc...Oh heavens, I've mentioned 2 FRENCH Cars! Sacre' Bleue! Get real...too many people are quick to criticise a car for the sole reason of being French...why?? I as a Foreigner to this country don't understand, is it cause of the silly Competitiveness between the 2 nations? Or is there something I'm missing completely? No - when it comes to cars, following Stereotypes France is known for ill-fitting interiors made out of chocolate boxes, a general lack of Mechanical Reliability, and a general misunderstanding of how to fasten things properly on a car...is that enough to dismiss a car entirely for being French?

Not having driven the 2 back to back, but rather a similar car (Paseo, Cynos), I can say for sure that going on the Saxo's reputation, the Starlet handles like a turd - make it corner and it'll just streak everywhere. Where the EP Chassis has no inkling of Steering or chassis feel to help you gauge available grip and inspire confidence in the car's ability in a corner, the Saxo is reputed to have an almost "Telepathic" Steering - you feel precisely what is going on at the front tyres, to the point the subsequent steering reaction takes you almost by surprise (I'm basing this on what I've read in car magazines, programs, users - not forums) - more so with the Peugeout 106 - after these couple of cars, everything seems "mute" as a comparison. Beam Rear axle suspensions typically restrict the amount of throttle adjustability you have mid-corner as you physically cannot have geometry alterations at the rear end, which is OH so true of the EP Chassis (generally) - enter a corner too fast, and no amount of adjusting of the throttle will curtail the line...unless you come off the throttle, in which case you spin. The Saxo/106 on the other hand follows the form of the 205 - approach with caution as the Adjustability is phenomenal...so much so that they're reknowned for Lift-Off oversteer...except, with the Saxo/106, you'll know it's happened cause you're an overexciteable turd or you ran out of skill.

Mind you, the Saxo/106...argh, fuck it, the Sax06...used a torsion beam rear suspension - still have a beam (of sorts) between the 2 rear wheels, but instead of using conventional springs, they use torsion beams which twist when a bump is absorbed by the suspension, keeping the beams in tension - hence torsion beams. I don't know the specifics, but I presume this suspension system allows for some toe-out under an unloaded situation (i.e. throttle-off). Anyway, beyond that, they Saxo has far more front end grip, is just as if not lighter than the Starlet for even quicker response, actually has a MODICUM of damping control on bumpy and undulating roads...compared to the Starlet. Infact, the only redeeming quality of the EP Chassis is that a) it's very light so can change direction relatively quickly and you can reach the limit of the shock absorbers quickly and evidently (you get the floaty feeling where you don't actually know if the wheels are on the ground or you heading towards a mid-air collision with an Airliner). And to the legions that think that Coilovers will instantly turn your car into an unbeatable Master of Handling Dynamics with no peers? No...no it won't. The steering still sucks, the rear axle is still a pile of turd...but at least the damping is a bit improved. Though, with Rick, D2's are cheaper than they are good (not that I can comment without actually trying them) but I will not respect a Company that makes Coilovers that are made to be cheap to sell to the masses and ticking the options box to goad in buyers...if they were developed endlessly in Racing Applications like - not cheap coilovers - then I may change my mind.

And the issue of which is faster? Who seriously gives a flying monkey (ooh, flying monkeys)??! Congratulations - your car is faster than a Saxo, your life is complete! Why not boast about how your car is faster than a Citroen Xantia Diesel or Daewoo Matiz or Hyundai Getz 1.1 or Citroen C3 1.2....or pretty much any Current 3 Cylinder, Diesel or upto 1.4 Hatchback/Supermini??

[Mikey Jay]

Essay stylee yo

[GLS_mike]

I have a mate that has a VTR any he wooped me on a straight but it wasnt from a stand still. i will compare when i have my new mani on as to weather a NA can beat a VTR their only 98bhp!!!!

My dads yaris 1.3 16v is 86bhp standard!!! theres not much in it. i think i could out handle the stock VTR and I've only lowered my car. only 40mins ago i was on ring road with mates civic 1.6 VTi (160bhp) and obviously he raped me on straights but i had to brake on the roundabouts in case i rammed him up the arse!!!

But, as has been said before:

-Depends on driver

-Depends on any mods each has

-Depends on Familiarity of road

we all know this could go on for ages and if we all went out to try and prove what we are saying we would all get different results.

PHEW! im going to bed now, goodnight all

Mike

[Sparky]

Its all down to what you want from your car...

IF you want a reliable car you buy a Jap Car, if you want a cheap runaround which is cheap to repair when it goes wrong ( which it will )then u buy a Shitroen/Poogeot

Easy

I had a mate who had a 106 and had nothing but trouble (saying that he had a clio aswell which was nothing but trouble and a MG ZR so its not just the French)

Personally I doubt I will own anything of the sort, but there we are thats me.

My Starlet has been faithful to me and never failed on me unless it was my fault so thats why im sticking to Jap/Toyota

[Nick_p]

Ive never had a prob with saxos and 106, apart from some dicks that drive em or mod em stupid, but thats a different story.

I used to have a 106 Rallye s1. lower 30mm on eibach springs and bilstein shocks... through the bends it was amazing and playing with the backed mid corner was awesome fun.

Was sad to see it go in the end, but always had a massive interest in Jap cars and as soon i could afford the insurance i got my Starlet.

Both cars are great saxo/106s and starlets

Just be happy with what you drive

[riko666]

I think you'll find the first thing people do when they get D2 Coilovers is to "deck" their cars...and the priority they choose it for is the price above anything. Not to say they're terrible, but they're outclassed by most other options. They're soft - true, good for British roads, but when you mention TRD, Tein, HKS...well...they ARE Billed as Track Coilovers for a reason. Which is why people looking for Softer Japanese coilovers will turn to GAB or JIC, which are "D2" Priced...just, in Japan though

[rob_bower]

Slightly of the pint and more N/A aimed. Ive slagged off Saxo's etc in the pas but for once i put this comparison to the test the standard stalet SR is on a par with a 106 Quicksilver i hate to sayt it but its true!!! A mate of mine bought on a few a while ago so we pu it to the test!!! Straight line speed they are equal to 70 although he was following he was not catching and i was not pulling away!!! round the roundabouts and country lanes there was not much difference either i followed him and vice versa. This concludes it for the n/a ill let you guys decide about turbos v the sax06 for yourselves!!!

But here is a little fuel for the fire!!! The 106 Gti weighed in at 950kg with 120 bhp and a top speed of 128 mph. As for the sax ho the earlier VTR's had 90 bhp with a top speed of 116 mph weighing in at 920kg, while the later although weighingg the same had 100bhp and a top speed of 120mph. The VTS on the other hand weighed in at 935kg with 120bhp and a top speed of 127mph!!! these are all stco figures from there respective makers and althou these give good indication of straight line speed figures cannot answer the quetion of which handles best!!!

[riko666]

and who's to say all respective driver's of said cars in said "Comparative Races" are the most skilled drivers? Not trying to be a bitch...but, yeah

[Bluebear]

*Wonders what a 4EFTE in a Saxo chassis would be like*

[shelly_star]

Why are we having a topic like this? So sad to compare who's best and stuff, its silly.

Saxo's are different cars with a different league. Was reading about the tuning you can do to the saxo/106 pug is quite impressive in i think it was Redline magazine, don't ask me why i had that mag, but it was there for me to read at work lol.

To be honest, handling wise, the pug 106 GTi are impressive standard compare to the GT/Glanza's suspensions. And i would probably say the saxo are better too in handling wise standard.

But at the end of the day, it's turbo vs n/a, jap vs french. End of Think this topic should be closed.

Agreed with Wullie that the starlets are now becoming more and more known and is going to be the next "chav/boyracer" car, it's going to happen to any car really, can't get away from it and looking at the prices of them now anyone can get hold of one.

D2 suspension are probably a little sloppy on the starlets, but on different cars they are way different, iam not sure why, but i can honestly say, the ride and everything is different in my car and in a Honda Civic. So all depends on how they were built for what car, otherwise D2s can do good. Mine has done me a good job over the years and so has to some other people that i know that has them in their Starlets.

Check this, Ten of the Best:

[Jozinobi]

Essay stylee yo

He's taken over from me

Well written Riko, was an interesting read.

Joz

[NightSpirit]

fecking Hell Riko....easy on the word count there mate!

Each to their own at the end of the day, real world driving is where it counts...

I agree with Rick again though on his point about the D2s....utter toss, like Whiteline gear, cheapo shite. Speaking from experience ofcourse

[scutch0]

i dont know why this thread has continued like this, i think we can do without this "my car is better than yours" crap. we all like to hear how our cars do up against the 'opposition' but i think this thread has gone from a simple comparison into something a bit out of control.

i personally dont like french cars, i dont know why, but i never have. but i respect the fact that they are quick, cheap and can out handle cars costing twice as much out of the showroom.

i have had a very good experience with my toyotas and thats why i still own one.

[riko666]

Hehe, what can I say Mark, I get carried away

But I agree wholeheartedly - reason I waffled is these "My car is better than your car" threads are gay, and people seemingly come to their own conclusions when they don't really know what they're supposed to look out for. And who cares if you're faster than a certain car?

[Mikey Jay]

My Levin is faster than a Reliant Robin, have that!

As said, does it really matter which car is best though?

(providing you enjoy/like your own car)

[NightSpirit]

I came to the rather sad conclusion some years ago that there will always be someone who can outdrive me, outhandle me and out accelerate me...no matter what you drive there will always be a situation when you lose.

As long as you win some of the time

Now, when I get my arse in gear and start my Ultima GTR build....then and only then will I destroy everything. period.

[59bhp]

I came to the rather sad conclusion some years ago that there will always be someone who can outdrive me, outhandle me and out accelerate me...no matter what you drive there will always be a situation when you lose.

Sounds daft but its kind of a downer when you realise this, happened to me after a few months of driving. Ah the ignorance of youth lol.

[Bluebear]

...start my Ultima GTR build....

I love those.

[NightSpirit]

yup, the innocence of youth...

Fancied an ultima for years, kind of decided that rather than slowly progressing up the performance ladder with different crafts, I'll just go straight for the top.

I remember when I owned a Corsa GSI about 10-12 years ago now, bought it new...thought it was amazing, then had a run in with a T5 volvo...actually thought I'd beat him, he just waved as he vanished into the distance

ah well

[Marc]

I started this topic a while back as i beleived the GT/Glanza was very fast and didnt want to beleive anything that chavs drove could be equal to it in power. It was a biased opinion i realise now, but when i re-opened the thread no where in my post did i slate the saxo. I just gave a true comparison of what had happened.

I added the reply because i basically answered my own question in the sense i found out for myself and not from other peoples opinions. And starletrick, yes you may beleive the D2's are crap but there brilliant for the money, affordable seeing as i'm an 18year old student, and greatly improved my starlets handling and looks. The reason i said i had d2's and F1's was because i was justifying my opinion that the saxo wouldn't "demoralise" me on the corners. The standard VTS and my starlet with a great set of tyres and d2's wont be too far apart. Not enough that he would beat me solely because he has better handling.

I am not wanting to start an argument because in the past you've gave me great replys on topics i have asked about.

I gave the saxo the same amount of respect as my GT when talking about them both.

[Mikey Jay]

Marc, no-one said you directly were slating Saxos, but other people did.