EP91 4AGE engine swap discusion

[c2888]

You probably want to use the Corolla type C series box, as the shift linkages are already set up for fwd, Otherwise you'll have to muck around and convert your mr2 stuff. Physically they are the same, so long as you are talking about the NA AW11. The supercharged gearbox is a much beefier beast.

I ended up using a 1999 Corolla c52 gearbox with a 4.06 diff ratio. I used this box as it already has the holes drilled and tapped like a Starlet gearbox to suit the front left gearbox mount. I could really use a 4.3 as most roads are too short to really get up it (2nd goes to 115kmh)

[shelly_star]

Nice info there mate, thanks i'll have to bear that in mind when i get started.

Thanks again.

T

(This is Tony, i forgot to sign out/in )

[scutch0]

just found that pic...

[Sparky]

Looks soooo snug in there

[scutch0]

i will do this conversion one day! it looks as if it was meant to be in there!!

[Guest Enzo]

yea i love the sparce engine bay wiretucking,

toyota is guilty of alot of things an not putting this engine into a starlet is one of them

[SiCaln]

yea wudv been awesome that does look sweet as in there

[CRaZyKiD]

I'm afraid i can't help with that question... but if its the same as the 4age black top version being a 4age gearbox and a 5 speed... i might be able to let you know when we get to working on it as soon as it arrives. In the meantime you can try asking on the aussie site or wait for a friendly reply here.

But from what i hear, the gearbox may not fit the starlet bell housing or somthing like that... i hope somone can elaborate on that or correct me if im wrong.

T

You probably want to use the Corolla type C series box, as the shift linkages are already set up for fwd, Otherwise you'll have to muck around and convert your mr2 stuff. Physically they are the same, so long as you are talking about the NA AW11. The supercharged gearbox is a much beefier beast.

I ended up using a 1999 Corolla c52 gearbox with a 4.06 diff ratio. I used this box as it already has the holes drilled and tapped like a Starlet gearbox to suit the front left gearbox mount. I could really use a 4.3 as most roads are too short to really get up it (2nd goes to 115kmh)

What about using the gearbox that comes with the MR2? My intensions are to buy the whole car, and strip off what i can use from it.. is my idea going to work.. or will the gearbox not fit in alongside the engine?

CK

[SiCaln]

yea the 4age box should take the power, ah but wait isnt that the 16v not the 20v 4age?!

[Guest Enzo]

no i think he is asking if the mr2 box will fit in the ep,

this im not sure of at all but there is a posssebility you could use your current six speed with the correct bellhousing,

my six speed is from the a series 4afe engine so theres a thought but ive heard that the bellhousing comes up an inch short,

thats all i know on that subject.

[c2888]

You could use the AW11 gearbox, as essentially it's the same gearbox found behind 4AGE when fitted to AE82 Corollas. But they have a different linkage setup so the shift cables are on the front of the gearbox, better suited to the mid layout of the MR2. You could get the correct linkage and convert a AW11 box. But there is no point as Corolla gearboxes are quite common, well they are in Australia. MR2 gearboxes however aren't, so I were you, I'd sell/swap the MR2 box for a Corolla one.

In short, it'll bolt up, but your linkages are on the wrong side, so your shift cables won't reach.

You could fit the 6 speed in there, but you'd need to cut even more. Without all the fat that is a Corolla you don't need 6 speeds. It'd be nice, but losing 200kg just by being in a EP shell really wakes the 4AGE up.

Gratuitous pics of mine, not quite as neat as the race car......

[SiCaln]

very smart indeed, your knowledge is more than welcome too

[Big_T-SR]

Yer... what they said lol. I don't really know myself.. Seems like c2888 is a real talking, moving info manuel, i may need to refer to you if things go out of hand mate if you don't mind lol. Thats engine bag looks niiiiice mate, what have you done about the air feed? The engine in the starlet might not leave enough room for trumpets to be efficient and the worst thing is that there are no after market vented bonnets for the ep91.. may have to customisely slice and dice lol

T

[SiCaln]

too true, hence the reason i had to make mine for Geoff

[c2888]

Was going to go the alloy trumpets that I had gotten from yahoojp auctions (I love auctions.yahoo.jp, although my wallet doesn't ) Pics of said sexy trumpets in my rides thread.

http://www.ukstarletclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7040

But the race shop that I was going to get sock filters was closed before race day, so I ended up putting the factory air surge tank back on. It got a generic k&n jammed into the end of it just so it wasn't sucking unfiltered air. Job finished go racing....

I've had a thought, and redoing the air surge tank is a right pita, so I'll stick with what Toyota made. Plus it's plenty noisey without being exposed, and when I get a spare moment i'm going to relocate the battery to the rear and put a factory type airbox with a proper cold air feed.

Once you've decided where you want the engine, and you really only have a choice in the location side to side, the hardest bit is shafts. Lucky for me I work at a wreckers (I think I would be a breaker in you part of the world) and we have LOTS of shafts and cvs to play with.

I'm still not entirely happy with the exact placing of my engine, it's a few mm out. But until I pull it out again, thats how it'll have to stay.

We had a ZZE122 come in last week, the 1ZZ-FE measured up to be some 40mm shorter than the 4AGE package. So maybe in the future I'll have a ZZ motor........

[Big_T-SR]

Thats cool man, keep us posted and thanks for your info!

T

[CRaZyKiD]

So.. in summery!

the AE11 (MK1 MR2) Engine, and the AE82 (Corrolla) Gearbox.. will go stright in? lol goodness.. its gonna be costly

gettin all this! - however.. im sure that some corrollas out there are using the 4AGE engine.. it be easy enough to just take the whole lot off that car.. the gearbox and engine... so, perhaps using the corolla as a doner car, rather than an MR2??

CK

[CRaZyKiD]

for example...

Click me

Could i buy this car, and pop everything on it?

CK

[c2888]

That would be a FWD Corolla that has the gearbox you want.

[CRaZyKiD]

and the engine??

[c2888]

Oh, you could use that too

[southwales_tuner]

Ok only just skimmed this thread. Im aware theres been no posts for a while but still......

20v 4AGE blacktop was in the Levin/Trueno AE111 BZ-G and the Levin/Trueno AE111 BZ-R

Older Levin's came with a 20v 4AGE silver top engine, the internals in this are slightly stronger if i remember rightly, but i think the internals can be swapped over into a black top if you really wanted too.

20v 4AGE blacktop is a VERY good engine. open up the quad throttle bodies out and itll free up some power. Chuck a set of velocity stacks on there and your laughing!

my advice is DONT use a 6speed manual box from a Levin BZ-R (and corolla g6 i think?) because their alot weaker at handling any sort of power, especially compared to a 5speed box in a Levin BZ-R which will cope with quite alot.

[Dan507]

Very knowledgeable thread.

[morgey]

I know this is an old thread but id thought id shed some light on the whole 4age thing, so people know whats involved in doing a conversion like this.

Before you start, make sure you deffinately want to do this, once started theres no going back to a 4e, well not easily anyway.

you will be removing your drivers engine mount and maybe even the passengers one and the battery tray (I did)

Willing to cut your chassis rail on the passenger side as a minimum, if you want to keep P/S A/C you will also need to cut the drivers one!

1st thing is dont put a time limit on this swap, take your time test fit the engine as many times as possible, i had mine in and out 6-10 times when cutting the chassis rail amd lining it all up and i still have a small rattle under hard acceleration in 1st and 2nd gear!!

If your doing a 16v swap then you can fit it in there front to back with only having to pull the rad tighter to the slam panel, or i brought a OBX manifold that gave me a couple more mm of room.

if going for the 20v the mani is about 40mm deeper so a civic rad will be needed, or a modded to fit 16v mani will have to be used (this is what im using) If converting from a 16v to a 20v you can fit the intake plenum in because the motor will be mounter a little bit futher forward because of the smaller manifold

All the mounts will have to be custom made or moddified, so will the driveshafts best way would be go custom (4age inner and 4efe outer C.Vs) i have heard that 4efte inner C.Vs are the same as the 4AGE and this means 4efte drivshafts can be made to fit (if you use these to center the engine when installing the engine) but this is only something I've heard and cannot confirm it unfortunately!! and the wiring loom will have to be sliced together (there is a company in america that can do this for you) but research a descent sparky and haynes manuals etc really do make the difference or just go stand alone!!, also uk spec 4AGE's and 4EFE's (i think) have the pin outs on the inside of the ecu which helps loads when tracing wires back and forth.

other things needed i found were front facing fans for space in the bay a ep** poly rear engine mount to stop the rediculous amount of movement the uk spec one has! a custom exhuast, battery relocation (recommended), Upraded fuel pump.

The other thing which may seem quite obvious is do any servicing and painting/coating of parts etc before the final fitting of the engine as you are limited for space after the engine is in place.

Now there are loads of things missing no doubt, I am willing to help anyone who desides to do this swap, but first find people to do the jobs you cant do yourself, it took me months to find someone to make me a custom driveshaft and if im honest i would do mine differently. as I've used 4age inner and outer C.Vs with custom hubs but i have only got 1 custom shaft. i would personally have 2 custom shafts and stock ep91 hubs and C.V's

Anyway this should clear up some bits and bobs about this swap and probably put a few people off doing it aswel!! if you are going to be doing it Go for a 20v or a built 16v as theres no point in putting a 125hp 16v in when you can get the same or more from a 4efte.

Edited September 16, 2012 by morgey

[micky boy]

^^Some good info there mate thanks for shareing ;)